Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-23-2012, 11:41 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $22376
Mitt Romney

It's obvious from the get-go that Romney was probably never going to get my vote. I'm a Democrat, I've always really liked the President and mostly approved of the job he's done, and I'm liberal. There's not a ton Romney offers me that I'm terribly interested in versus the horse I'm already backing -- except perhaps Olympic-caliber fancy dancing.

And originally, I never even liked the guy. I always felt like Romney looks like an experiment somebody conducted to turn a gigantic mutli-national corporation into a human being. In his appearance to his smooth professionalism to his occasional woodenness (his awkward, soul-less laughs during the Republican primary debates were amazing), all just looked like he'd been constructed in a lab by some corporation.

I'd liked the job he did as the governor of Massachussetts, obviously. His accomplishments there deserve praise. Massachussetts is always a nation-leader in healthcare, education, quality of life, combating poverty -- but he actually improved the state on all those fronts by becoming essentially a center-left governor. I've always got a soft spot for guys who can appreciate the other's point of view, and Romney's time as governor demonstrated that to me. He wasn't a flawless governor, but so few are. He was a strong governor in a state largely favored by his political opponents.

Of course, the Romneys of the '08 and '12 GOP primaries, really the Romney for the past seven years, had been deafeningly offputting for me. In the '08 primaries, you learned that Romney once ran as a straight-up liberal Republican a decade ago against Ted Kennedy. And now he was singing a completely different tune, and running against the absolute worst combination of candidates for that kind of record: McCain, who had decades of pretty consistently standing by his principles on his record, and Huckabee, a superbly charistmatic, silver-tongued debater who constantly exposed Romney's flip-flops while making him look completely unlikeable. (The best anti-Romney line to this day remains Huckabee's: "I trust a change of heart more on its way to Damascus than I do on its way to Des Moines.")

To make matters worse, all the things Romney did in the first place to make him so appealing to me, he blatantly ran away from -- he should have stood by Romneycare, and treated it as the greatest accomplishment he's made in his professional life. Instead, he ignored it and let Huckabee frame it on the campaign trail.

To go from hard liberal, to center-left, to hard-right just reeks of opportunism, bald ambition and careerism to me, and it didn't make matters better when he spent the next three years basically popping up on Fox News to argue that whatever Obama did at any time was the opposite of the right thing (except for murky, difficult issues like the Libyan intervention, in which nothing but radio silence was heard from his camp). Even while it was things Romney himself had once worked for and endorsed: the stimulus package, Obamacare, etc.

All the while, doing, well... nothing. He wasn't in office, he wasn't really running Bane anymore, he was just traveling the country, amassing donors for his next, inevitable run. And there's nothing less inspiring than simply running for President not because the moment demanded your service (as he was running for President in 2012 since January 21st, 2009), but simply because you have the financial and political infrastructure in place for it.

The Romney in 2012's primaries was less offensive to me in a way, primarily because he was the second-best candidate in the field behind Jon Huntsman. Romney and Huntsman displayed an ability to at least see what the other half the country was saying. But Gingrich, Cain, Bachmann, Perry, Santorum.... what an atrocious, inflexible field of folks who just hate roughly half the country. But at the same time, it was more offensive. The Republican Party had merged so crudely with the Tea Party wave at that point that Romney's only way forward was to go even further to the right of his 2008 persona, which for my money was "simply" hard-conservative. Now Romney had embraced reactionary regressivism, a point of view squarely at odds with my own, with so much of the Republican Party's pre-Tea Party history.

He endorsed Ryan's budget. He called the Arizona immigration law a national model. He threw away his time as a left-leaning governor and bragged about being a "severe conservative." He ran as the CEO of Bain, a company which served the interests of those running other companies, often times to the detriment of the workers. He favored huge, massive tax cuts for the wealthy on top of the huge, massive tax cuts they are already getting. He said he wasn't concerned about the very poor. He became a jingoist, exclaiming that any admission of America's missteps to others is apologizing for it. He's argued that we should treat Israel as the 51st state. He argued that the President should defer to his generals. Most damning to me: he argued that he would refuse 10 dollars in spending cuts for 1 dollar in additional revenue.

This Romney, of course, I detested. He seemed less detestable than Gingrich et al, but that's not exactly raising the bar.

Of course, he's since developed into a center-right candidate the past month. But that brings me to the very center of my dislike of Mitt Romney: despite this most recent evolution, I am genuinely concerned that he is a rightwing reactionary, or at least has developed into that guy the past five years.

And to everybody who wants to argue that there's no way Romney can be this guy, that he was a successful governor of a blue state, that his positions in the past month are the "real" him... I have several rebuttals.

1. There's just no way to know. There isn't. He's now run as a hardcore liberal and as a reactionary regressive. He's made pitstops at every location in between. There is absolutely no way to know which Romney is the real Romney, or how he will govern as President since he so frequently omits details and then reverses himself on key, fundamental issues like the federal budget and healthcare. It's entirely possible he emerges as the centrist figure his record as governor indicated. But given his blind ambition, it's also possible he was just doing in Massachussetts whatever he could to succeed so he could get to the next level and be more true to himself.

Reactionary, regressive policies would be absolutely damaging to this country at this time in its history. We're climbing through purgatory out of the 7th circle of hell that was the 2008-09 global recession. Income inequality is brutal, and devastating. The fundamental restructuring of how American companies operate in an ever-more-global economy will put even more Americans in underemployment or on the government dole. Class mobility is getting worse. As is, sadly, geographical mobility for a lot of Americans.

I am of the belief that the deeply regressive policies will put these people behind the eight ball even more than they are today. It is heartbreaking to think about. Any realistic chance that Romney could genuinely espouse these policies is a backbreaker for me.

2. Paul Ryan. Romney's embrace of the Ryan budget and the author behind it make me genuinely believe this is a man who holds Ryan's deeply regressive policies at the heart of his political considerations. Ryan's budget has been modified a few times to be slightly less insane, and Romney's embrace of it since winning the GOP nomination has weakened.

But selecting a running mate is the only Presidential decision non-incumbents make in an election. It's the only one with lasting consequences into your Presidency. And the fact that Romney chose to elevate Ryan to potentially being a heartbeat away from the Presidency is shocking, considering Romney once was the left-leaning governor of Massachussetts. I believe Mitt Romney has simply evolved.

3. The forty seven percent remarks. It's so hard to tell what Romney really believes from h is public statements, that the hour-long tape behind closed doors in a confidential conversation with big money donors obviously seems incredibly damning. I really do know what conservatives felt like in 2008 now, when Obama's "clinging to guns and religion" remark emerged behind closed doors. It felt like your worst fears of a candidate being vindicated on every level.

It's not remotely possible he was inarticulate, as he's since argued -- that excuse would work if just a sentence or two was being snipped out of a tape, but in this case it was a several-minute diatribe. It's more feasible that Romney was just full of shit and telling his fatcat donors what they wanted to hear. Wouldn't be the first time a politician did that.

But his construction of the argument sounded exactly like the author of the Ryan plan would sound. That these public programs were not worthy of the vast majority of the people receiving them. That the less fortunate are dead weight that we have to tolerate. That they don't care about shit other than getting more money from richer people. That they aren't thoughtful, and that they all reflexively back the bigger hander-outter. This is a disdain for the poor, or at least a total lack of consideration for the less fortunate, that has fueled so many Romney gaffes and show why he no longer cares about the successes he fueled for the poor a decade ago.

I've come around on Romney, personally, over the past few weeks. Moderate Mitt works for me, if it were the pitch I'd received all along, though my vote would probably still be with Obama. He doesn't seem like a corporate tool anymore to my eyes -- he seems incredibly engaging, very intelligent and nuanced in his thinking, and I've even seen some charm eke out of him the past few weeks. His performances in all three debates were strong, showing he's dead serious about the tasks at hand. (And I do actually love that he's a Mormon, but that's more of a reflection of my satisfaction that America is thisclose to being comfortable enough with one to make him President.)

But that's Dr. Henry Jekyll. The guy I'm genuinely concerned about, the guy I am vehemently opposed to even getting a glance at the Oval Office, is Mr. Edward Hyde, a.k.a. Regressive Mitt.
Posts: 46,716
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:46 AM   #2
KC native KC native is offline
a toda madre o un desmadre
 
KC native's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Casino cash: $14564
nB4 tl;dr
__________________
The diameter of your knowledge is the circumference of your actions. Ras Kass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
I'm just a little pussy from Iowa
Posts: 18,500
KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:47 AM   #3
KC native KC native is offline
a toda madre o un desmadre
 
KC native's Avatar
 

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Casino cash: $14564
Mittens is a robot. He is a vacuous person that will say whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear.
__________________
The diameter of your knowledge is the circumference of your actions. Ras Kass

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iowanian View Post
I'm just a little pussy from Iowa
Posts: 18,500
KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.KC native is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 11:51 AM   #4
blaise blaise is offline
Gonzo = Sexy Bitch
 

Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Plano, TX
Casino cash: $45
"my vote would probably still be with Obama."

That's maybe the funniest thing I've read in a month.
Posts: 21,019
blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.blaise is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 12:17 PM   #5
bishop_74 bishop_74 is offline
Veteran
 
bishop_74's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Denver, CO. USA
Casino cash: $7639
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Mittens is a robot. He is a vacuous person that will say whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear.

"He is a vacuous person that will say whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear." = Definition of Politician???
Posts: 3,452
bishop_74 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitellibishop_74 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitellibishop_74 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitellibishop_74 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitellibishop_74 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitellibishop_74 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitellibishop_74 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitellibishop_74 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitellibishop_74 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitellibishop_74 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitellibishop_74 's adopt a chief was Sabby Piscitelli
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 12:19 PM   #6
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $22376
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop_74 View Post
"He is a vacuous person that will say whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear." = Definition of Politician???
Sure.

But not all vacuous politicians are created equal.

In his public life, Romney has campaigned and governed as (a.) a straight-up liberal, (b.) left-of-center moderate, (c.) right-of-center moderate, (d.) hardcore conservative, and a (e.) reactionary regressive.

That's a level of dexterity that has no feasible basis in reality.
__________________
Posts: 46,716
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 12:22 PM   #7
TEX TEX is offline
I SURVIVED Herm, Scott & Matt!
 
TEX's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Houston, TX
Casino cash: $9555
Direckshun, you crack me up... 14 more days and counting...
__________________
Welcome to the National FIXED League...
My new FAVORITE Numbers are 43 & 8...
Posts: 14,914
TEX has disabled reputation
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 12:26 PM   #8
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $22376
Quote:
Originally Posted by TEX View Post
Direckshun, you crack me up... 14 more days and counting...
__________________
Posts: 46,716
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 12:32 PM   #9
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $19924
Quote:
Originally Posted by bishop_74 View Post
"He is a vacuous person that will say whatever he thinks his audience wants to hear." = Definition of Politician???
To a large degree, yes. But even by those standards, Mitt's shameless changes, even on major issues, seem to indicate a fairly high level of psychosis.
__________________
Posts: 20,139
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 12:52 PM   #10
mnchiefsguy mnchiefsguy is offline
MVP
 
mnchiefsguy's Avatar
 

Join Date: Dec 2003
Casino cash: $7589
Like this is a surprise...you have never voted for anyone other than a Democrat in your entire life.
__________________
Posts: 6,869
mnchiefsguy is obviously part of the inner Circle.mnchiefsguy is obviously part of the inner Circle.mnchiefsguy is obviously part of the inner Circle.mnchiefsguy is obviously part of the inner Circle.mnchiefsguy is obviously part of the inner Circle.mnchiefsguy is obviously part of the inner Circle.mnchiefsguy is obviously part of the inner Circle.mnchiefsguy is obviously part of the inner Circle.mnchiefsguy is obviously part of the inner Circle.mnchiefsguy is obviously part of the inner Circle.mnchiefsguy is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 01:11 PM   #11
DementedLogic DementedLogic is offline
Starter
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Casino cash: $5040
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Sure.

But not all vacuous politicians are created equal.

In his public life, Romney has campaigned and governed as (a.) a straight-up liberal, (b.) left-of-center moderate, (c.) right-of-center moderate, (d.) hardcore conservative, and a (e.) reactionary regressive.

That's a level of dexterity that has no feasible basis in reality.
When has Romney ever campaigned as a hardcore conservative? Even during the primaries, he was still more moderate than any of his competitors. Either you have a misunderstanding of what a hardcore conservative is or you didn't follow the primaries. What do you thinik defined Romney as a hardcore conservative?
Posts: 767
DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 01:15 PM   #12
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
Debunking your bullshit
 
cosmo20002's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: KC area
Casino cash: $19924
Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedLogic View Post
When has Romney ever campaigned as a hardcore conservative? Even during the primaries, he was still more moderate than any of his competitors. Either you have a misunderstanding of what a hardcore conservative is or you didn't follow the primaries. What do you thinik defined Romney as a hardcore conservative?
How about a "severe conservative?" That's what he called himself.
__________________
Posts: 20,139
cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.cosmo20002 is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 01:19 PM   #13
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $22376
Quote:
Originally Posted by DementedLogic View Post
When has Romney ever campaigned as a hardcore conservative? Even during the primaries, he was still more moderate than any of his competitors. Either you have a misunderstanding of what a hardcore conservative is or you didn't follow the primaries. What do you thinik defined Romney as a hardcore conservative?
Considering his competitors were Gingrich, Bachmann, Cain, Santorum, and Perry...

Besides, Romney ran as a seriously conservative campaign in the 2008 primaries.

In 2012, he went above and beyond. He ran a downright regressive and reactionary campaign.
__________________
Posts: 46,716
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 01:20 PM   #14
DementedLogic DementedLogic is offline
Starter
 

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Casino cash: $5040
Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
How about a "severe conservative?" That's what he called himself.
When have his policies he's campaigned on ever reflected that he is a hardcore conservative?

Mitt is a moderate-liberal, and he always will be. The only difference now is that he might actually understand the looming debt crisis, and that liberal policies are only going to make it worse. If the economy was like it was in 2000, Romney's plans would be very similar to what Obama's are now.
Posts: 767
DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.DementedLogic must have mowed badgirl's lawn.
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2012, 01:20 PM   #15
King_Chief_Fan King_Chief_Fan is offline
Praise Him
 
King_Chief_Fan's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: St. Louis MO
Casino cash: $6697
Mitt is our Quinn and Barack is our Cassel.

Had enough of one, let's try the other.
Posts: 8,278
King_Chief_Fan Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.King_Chief_Fan Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.King_Chief_Fan Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.King_Chief_Fan Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.King_Chief_Fan Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.King_Chief_Fan Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.King_Chief_Fan Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.King_Chief_Fan Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.King_Chief_Fan Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.King_Chief_Fan Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.King_Chief_Fan Forgot to Remove His Claytex and Got Toxic Shock Syndrome.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:43 AM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.