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Old 10-31-2012, 12:48 PM  
dirk digler dirk digler is offline
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Do you think Heaven exists?

As some of you may know or not I lost my mom 3 weeks ago and I am sort of struggling with my beliefs with this. She wanted to die so she could go to Heaven instead of getting her colon out. She definitely believed in Heaven and I honestly hope she wasn't disappointed.

My heart wants to believe in Heaven for the simple fact I want to see her again along with my grandma and sometime in the near future my dad.

My head tells me logically that there is probably no heaven and I get a little upset when people say she is in a better place because I really want to say Is she or how do you know?

So I am curious what you guys\gals believe and I am wondering outside of what the bible says has there been anything you have witnessed or experienced that lead you to believe one way or another?



Edit: I do appreciate all the kind words of support it does mean alot but I am not wanting this to be a sympathy thread so any argument for against is fine by me. There will be no offense taken. So have at it.

Last edited by dirk digler; 10-31-2012 at 04:05 PM..
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:53 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
There is no "god" of silly ancient scribblings. The god project has found over 100,000 gods that have been worshiped at some point here on earth. You choose to disbelieve 99,999 of them, I just take that one step further.

Whatever it is that people call god, that "thing" they connect to and then just "know" there is a god, is inside all of us. No need for superstition or supernatural explanations. The Hindu, Moslem, Christian, Buddhist religious experience is reported as virtually the same thing.

But its not because of some ancient divining of goat entails, rather a connection to a deep part of our own brain's subconscious.
Satan/Lucifer was with GOD from the beginning and we know the angels were made higher than man, of course he knows how to corrupt GOD by making them all very similar. There are a thousand doors and only one leads to Jesus.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:56 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post

I just find it illogical that something as complex as human thought and intelligence fades to nothing.
Why?

The answer of course, is arrogance. We all long to be special, its why video games like Fable are so popular. We crave privilege. Sagan said it better than I. He is a special word smith but hit the nail so eloquently:


Philosophy and religion cautioned that the gods (or God) were far more powerful than we, jealous of their prerogatives and quick to mete out justice for insufferable arrogance. At the same time, these disciplines had not a clue that their own teaching of how the Universe is ordered was a conceit and a delusion.

Every other proposal, and their number is legion, to displace us from cosmic center stage has also been resisted, in part for similar reasons. We seem to crave privilege, merited not by our work, but by our birth, by the mere fact that, say, we are humans and born on Earth. We might call it the anthropocentric—the “human-centered”—conceit. This conceit is brought close to culmination in the notion that we are created in God’s image: The Creator and Ruler of the entire Universe looks just like me. My, what a coincidence. How convenient and satisfying! -Carl Sagan
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Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:57 AM   #123
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Why?

The answer of course, is arrogance. We all long to be special, its why video games like Fable are so popular. We crave privilege. Sagan said it better than I. He is a special word smith but hit the nail so eloquently:


Philosophy and religion cautioned that the gods (or God) were far more powerful than we, jealous of their prerogatives and quick to mete out justice for insufferable arrogance. At the same time, these disciplines had not a clue that their own teaching of how the Universe is ordered was a conceit and a delusion.

Every other proposal, and their number is legion, to displace us from cosmic center stage has also been resisted, in part for similar reasons. We seem to crave privilege, merited not by our work, but by our birth, by the mere fact that, say, we are humans and born on Earth. We might call it the anthropocentric—the “human-centered”—conceit. This conceit is brought close to culmination in the notion that we are created in God’s image: The Creator and Ruler of the entire Universe looks just like me. My, what a coincidence. How convenient and satisfying! -Carl Sagan
Fable and Carl Sagan both suck.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:57 AM   #124
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Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
Satan/Lucifer was with GOD from the beginning and we know the angels were made higher than man, of course he knows how to corrupt GOD by making them all very similar. There are a thousand doors and only one leads to Jesus.
Sure buddy. You nailed it.
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Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:59 AM   #125
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Sure buddy. You nailed it.
NP, my services are offered free. I hope you have gleamed some information to help you in your further journeys.
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"If the people let government decide what foods they eat and what medicines they take, their bodies will soon be in as sorry a state as are the souls of those who live under tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:05 PM   #126
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Originally Posted by Bump View Post
But, only yours is the real one! lol
Well and then there's the subset of that religion that you actually think is correct and reject the rest of it. It would be laughable if it was anything other than religion.

Let's have some fun and set Pioli up as god and then replace bible quotes of god with Pioli.

For Pioli so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Cassel, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Amen.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris616 View Post
High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:11 PM   #127
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:13 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Well and then there's the subset of that religion that you actually think is correct and reject the rest of it. It would be laughable if it was anything other than religion.

Let's have some fun and set Pioli up as god and then replace bible quotes of god with Pioli.

For Pioli so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Cassel, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Amen.
Why not just let them believe instead of trying to convince them that they're wrong?
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:15 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Why not just let them believe instead of trying to convince them that they're wrong?
Yeah, I don't really get when some of these guys feel compelled to start ridiculing other people over it. Makes them feel better about themselves or something.
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:16 PM   #130
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Why not just let them believe instead of trying to convince them that they're wrong?
Dave feels like he is a "soldier" for enlightment and truth
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:20 PM   #131
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I believe in an afterlife simply because I just cant process the thought of there being NOTHING when you die. That would be worse than hell IMO.

But I don't believe in the religious versions of heaven. They just don't make that much sense.

And fwiw, that 8 year old that went to heaven said that he saw the version of angels that is shown on Tv/books and other outlets. That makes literally no sense because the biblical versions of angels look more like monsters than humans with robes and wings.

So my theory is that it was all a hallucination, or they were stories told to him by his preacher parents that turned into memories during his coma.

I don't think anyone has experienced any afterlife. No one has ever DIED and then come back. There's a difference between real death and clinically dead. And no one has ever experienced real death so I cant believe stories from people who say they've died and went to heaven or hell or w/e.
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:34 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
There is no "god" of silly ancient scribblings. The god project has found over 100,000 gods that have been worshiped at some point here on earth. You choose to disbelieve 99,999 of them, I just take that one step further.

Whatever it is that people call god, that "thing" they connect to and then just "know" there is a god, is inside all of us. No need for superstition or supernatural explanations. The Hindu, Moslem, Christian, Buddhist religious experience is reported as virtually the same thing.

But its not because of some ancient divining of goat entails, rather a connection to a deep part of our own brain's subconscious.
This begs a question: Why do people, feel the need to believe in any kind of "god"?

Empirical evidence by your posts shows that they clearly do, even you said that your intellect and the sky is a god of sorts for you. Why do you need that connection?
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:35 PM   #133
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Well and then there's the subset of that religion that you actually think is correct and reject the rest of it. It would be laughable if it was anything other than religion.

Let's have some fun and set Pioli up as god and then replace bible quotes of god with Pioli.

For Pioli so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Cassel, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Amen.
This is what Pioli says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

I will make Mount Seir utterly desolate, killing off all who try to escape and any who return. I will fill your mountains with the dead. Your hills, your valleys, and your streams will be filled with people slaughtered by the sword. I will make you desolate forever. Your cities will never be rebuilt. Then you will know that I am the SCOTT PIOLI. (Ezekiel 35:7-9 NLT)
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:43 PM   #134
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Why not just let them believe instead of trying to convince them that they're wrong?
I agree with you for the most part. But shouldn't there be a point in which belief can be detrimental? Like say, your child believes that mermaids are real. It doesn't hurt anything for her to believe that. But some parents feel the motivation to correct it, so that their children will believe what they perceive as the truth.

I think most times, people like Dave Lane are trying to show people what they believe is the truth. It's not necessarily motivated by a need to prove someone else wrong, but a need to provide what they honestly feel is truth. Even though it doesn't always come out that way.

In the case of this thread, dirk's grandmother was so convinced in Heaven that she wanted to die before her physical body was ready to give up. If there isn't a heaven, then she would be ceasing her existence earlier than what would be natural, and would be missing part of life because of incorrect beliefs. It's a slippery slope for sure, but I can understand why people are passionate about both sides, and would say something as opposed to simply letting a loved one believe something you think is wrong.
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Old 11-01-2012, 12:52 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Dave Lane View Post
Let's have some fun and set Pioli up as god and then replace bible quotes of god with Pioli.

For Pioli so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Cassel, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Amen.
Pioli wept. John 11:35
Because now Pioli’s been put at the same ‘level playing field’ with Jesus/God, his prayers have been answered.
Good grief now we’ll never get rid of him, that's just great, thanks!
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Old 11-01-2012, 01:06 PM
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