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Old 11-07-2012, 10:59 PM  
patteeu patteeu is offline
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If democrats had just been defeated soundly by an incumbent President and failed to take control of the Senate, what would they do? Would they talk about abandoning identity politics of race, gender, and sexual preference? Would they give up on class warfare? How about throwing the peace-at-all-costs guys out of the party? No, as a matter of fact, when this happened to them in 2004 they did something completely different. Indeed, their loss was even more substantial because they were left without a majority in either house of Congress.

No, they didn't look for ways to work with the majority party. Instead, they chose to demonize GWBush's efforts to reform social security and to undermine our troops in Iraq in order to stick the president with a lost war. Two years later, they took over both houses of Congress just in time to ride our economy into the ground.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:00 PM   #2
L.A. Chieffan L.A. Chieffan is offline
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John Kerry was a joke. Republicans won (barely) because Democrats put up a weak candidate. A mistake that the GOP has now copied to success.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:03 PM   #3
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A. Chieffan View Post
John Kerry was a joke. Republicans won (barely) because Democrats put up a weak candidate. A mistake that the GOP has now copied to success.
OK. Now the GOP should copy the post-Kerry Congressional democrats.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:04 PM   #4
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:06 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
OK. Now the GOP should copy the post-Kerry Congressional democrats.
Problem is that the majority of the country seeing them as doing that already.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:10 PM   #6
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
If democrats had just been defeated soundly by an incumbent President and failed to take control of the Senate, what would they do? Would they talk about abandoning identity politics of race, gender, and sexual preference? Would they give up on class warfare? How about throwing the peace-at-all-costs guys out of the party? No, as a matter of fact, when this happened to them in 2004 they did something completely different. Indeed, their loss was even more substantial because they were left without a majority in either house of Congress.

No, they didn't look for ways to work with the majority party. Instead, they chose to demonize GWBush's efforts to reform social security and to undermine our troops in Iraq in order to stick the president with a lost war. Two years later, they took over both houses of Congress just in time to ride our economy into the ground.
The Ds didn't need a big change like the Rs do. The Ds demographics aren't shrinking, they are growing. Wedge issues like gay marriage used successfully by the Rs are becoming more accepted, or people just don't care as much. And, in W's case, you had a war people finally became fed up with and an economy that tanked. Ds didn't need to change, the Rs were destroying themselves.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:12 PM   #7
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:12 PM   #8
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A. Chieffan View Post
John Kerry was a joke.

Let's not get carried away bashing one of the heir apparents of the Democrat mantle.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:13 PM   #9
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
If democrats had just been defeated soundly by an incumbent President and failed to take control of the Senate, what would they do? Would they talk about abandoning identity politics of race, gender, and sexual preference? Would they give up on class warfare? How about throwing the peace-at-all-costs guys out of the party? No, as a matter of fact, when this happened to them in 2004 they did something completely different. Indeed, their loss was even more substantial because they were left without a majority in either house of Congress.

No, they didn't look for ways to work with the majority party. Instead, they chose to demonize GWBush's efforts to reform social security and to undermine our troops in Iraq in order to stick the president with a lost war. Two years later, they took over both houses of Congress just in time to ride our economy into the ground.
Congrats, you've now argued on this board that (a.) George W. Bush was regularly able to cobble together bipartisan support for his legislative priorities, and now (b.) that Democrats refused to work with him.

Care to explain how both of these things can be true?

Or are you just pushing immense piles of bullshit that fit whatever narrative you've decided to embrace at any particular moment.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:13 PM   #10
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I'm more in favor of the Clinton strategy of co-opting a couple of good Democratic ideas like immigration reform and claiming all the credit for it.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:21 PM   #11
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
The Ds didn't need a big change like the Rs do. The Ds demographics aren't shrinking, they are growing. Wedge issues like gay marriage used successfully by the Rs are becoming more accepted, or people just don't care as much. And, in W's case, you had a war people finally became fed up with and an economy that tanked. Ds didn't need to change, the Rs were destroying themselves.
I don't think Republicans have to ignore demographic changes to follow this path. They can get started with some personal demonization over the Benghazi fiasco. It will defy all odds if they can't find some stench of scandal (if not Benghazi, then something else) to employ against Obama's second term team.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:23 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Congrats, you've now argued on this board that (a.) George W. Bush was regularly able to cobble together bipartisan support for his legislative priorities, and now (b.) that Democrats refused to work with him.

Care to explain how both of these things can be true?

Or are you just pushing immense piles of bullshit that fit whatever narrative you've decided to embrace at any particular moment.
I think you're imagining things. GWB made monumental efforts to work with democrats, especially in his first term and he was always gracious to them. He was rarely successful though, particularly in term 2.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:24 PM   #13
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Congrats, you've now argued on this board that (a.) George W. Bush was regularly able to cobble together bipartisan support for his legislative priorities, and now (b.) that Democrats refused to work with him.

Care to explain how both of these things can be true?

Or are you just pushing immense piles of bullshit that fit whatever narrative you've decided to embrace at any particular moment.
Busted, pat.
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:24 PM   #14
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Old 11-07-2012, 11:25 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Busted, pat.
Incorrect.
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