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Old 11-08-2012, 06:55 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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The Conservative Media Is Lying To You

Conor Friedersdorf ****ing nails it. If you bathe in the muck of the vast majority of conservative media -- if you read FoxNews.com more than any other site, if you hail Mark Levin as brilliant, if you live and die by Drudge...

Then you are being lied to.

There are plenty of conservative sources that simply have a conservative view on the world -- the Wall Street Journal, for instance. But that's distinct from the profitable media empire that sells propaganda damn near 24/7.

Example #1, since it comes up so much in this forum: the Drudge Report.

How many times did the Drudge Report link to Nate Silver, who absolutely crushed his election predictions? Zero.
How many times did the Drudge Report link to Dick Morris? A dozen.

And yet you bought it. You might recall sitting there watching the election returns, certain that Romney would win because for months you've been inundated with Republican whores like Morris telling you what you wanted to hear -- "Obama's a paper tiger," "his campaign is getting desperate," "absolutely nobody I know is voting Obama," "I see more Romney yard signs," "look at this outlier poll that favors Romney"...

Then the results come in, largely how the vast majority of polls told us they would.

You were misinformed. Massively. And it's not just limited to election returns. On climate change, tax rates, income inequality, immigration, healthcare, energy, foreign policy (in particular the Middle East), gay rights for the longest time, and of course Obama himself... You are being sold a bullshit platter that leaves you just as misinformed as you were about the prospective election results.

The biggest offender, of course, is Fox News. Not that they're the most egregious violators of conservative propaganda, but they're by far the most pervasive and the most influential.

You trust Fox News because you believe they are simply reporting from a conservative point of view. That's not true. They are actively selling bullshit. This election and Rove's meltdown on the evening of the 6th is proof. This is an organization that is financially and professionally tied to the Republican Party. Fox News' overlords donate heavily to the GOP. Many Republican candidates for the Presidency either end up or originate as Fox News contributors. This is not an independent outlet in any shape or form, it is a direct arm of the Republican Party.

Get out of this bubble. Set Google News as your homepage. And embrace the next four years as an opportunity to find out what you actually believe, rather than simply adopting the narrative of charlatans.

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/...d-file/264855/

How Conservative Media Lost to the MSM and Failed the Rank and File
Nate Silver was right. His ideological antagonists were wrong. And that's just the beginning of the right's self-created information disadvantage.
By Conor Friedersdorf
Nov 7 2012, 6:30 AM ET

Before rank-and-file conservatives ask, "What went wrong?", they should ask themselves a question every bit as important: "Why were we the last to realize that things were going wrong for us?"

Barack Obama just trounced a Republican opponent for the second time. But unlike four years ago, when most conservatives saw it coming, Tuesday's result was, for them, an unpleasant surprise. So many on the right had predicted a Mitt Romney victory, or even a blowout -- Dick Morris, George Will, and Michael Barone all predicted the GOP would break 300 electoral votes. Joe Scarborough scoffed at the notion that the election was anything other than a toss-up. Peggy Noonan insisted that those predicting an Obama victory were ignoring the world around them. Even Karl Rove, supposed political genius, missed the bulls-eye. These voices drove the coverage on Fox News, talk radio, the Drudge Report, and conservative blogs.

Those audiences were misinformed.

Outside the conservative media, the narrative was completely different. Its driving force was Nate Silver, whose performance forecasting Election '08 gave him credibility as he daily explained why his model showed that President Obama enjoyed a very good chance of being reelected. Other experts echoed his findings. Readers of The New York Times, The Atlantic, and other "mainstream media" sites besides knew the expert predictions, which have been largely born out. The conclusions of experts are not sacrosanct. But Silver's expertise was always a better bet than relying on ideological hacks like Morris or the anecdotal impressions of Noonan.


Sure, Silver could've wound up wrong. But people who rejected the possibility of his being right? They were operating at a self-imposed information disadvantage.

Conservatives should be familiar with its contours. For years, they've been arguing that liberal control of media and academia confers one advantage: Folks on the right can't help but be familiar with the thinking of liberals, whereas leftists can operate entirely within a liberal cocoon. This analysis was offered to explain why liberal ideas were growing weaker and would be defeated.

Today?

It is easy to close oneself off inside a conservative echo chamber. And right-leaning outlets like Fox News and Rush Limbaugh's show are far more intellectually closed than CNN or public radio. If you're a rank-and-file conservative, you're probably ready to acknowledge that ideologically friendly media didn't accurately inform you about Election 2012. Some pundits engaged in wishful thinking; others feigned confidence in hopes that it would be a self-fulfilling prophecy; still others decided it was smart to keep telling right-leaning audiences what they wanted to hear.

But guess what?

You haven't just been misinformed about the horse race. Since the very beginning of the election cycle, conservative media has been failing you. With a few exceptions, they haven't tried to rigorously tell you the truth, or even to bring you intellectually honest opinion. What they've done instead helps to explain why the right failed to triumph in a very winnable election.

Why do you keep putting up with it?

Conservatives were at a disadvantage because Romney supporters like Jennifer Rubin and Hugh Hewitt saw it as their duty to spin constantly for their favored candidate rather than being frank about his strengths and weaknesses. What conservative Washington Post readers got, when they traded in Dave Weigel for Rubin, was a lot more hackery and a lot less informed about the presidential election.

Conservatives were at an information disadvantage because so many right-leaning outlets wasted time on stories the rest of America dismissed as nonsense. WorldNetDaily brought you birtherism. Forbes brought you Kenyan anti-colonialism. National Review obsessed about an imaginary rejection of American exceptionalism, misrepresenting an Obama quote in the process, and Andy McCarthy was interviewed widely about his theory that Obama, aka the Drone Warrior in Chief, allied himself with our Islamist enemies in a "Grand Jihad" against America. Seriously?

Conservatives were at a disadvantage because their information elites pandered in the most cynical, self-defeating ways, treating would-be candidates like Sarah Palin and Herman Cain as if they were plausible presidents rather than national jokes who'd lose worse than George McGovern.

How many months were wasted on them?

How many hours of Glenn Beck conspiracy theories did Fox News broadcast to its viewers? How many hours of transparently mindless Sean Hannity content is still broadcast daily? Why don't Americans trust Republicans on foreign policy as they once did? In part because conservatism hasn't grappled with the foreign-policy failures of George W. Bush. A conspiracy of silence surrounds the subject. Romney could neither run on the man's record nor repudiate it. The most damaging Romney gaffe of the campaign, where he talked about how the 47 percent of Americans who pay no income taxes are a lost cause for Republicans? Either he was unaware that many of those people are Republican voters, or was pandering to GOP donors who are misinformed. Either way, bad information within the conservative movement was to blame.

In conservative fantasy-land, Richard Nixon was a champion of ideological conservatism, tax cuts are the only way to raise revenue, adding neoconservatives to a foreign-policy team reassures American voters, Benghazi was a winning campaign issue, Clint Eastwood's convention speech was a brilliant triumph, and Obama's America is a place where black kids can beat up white kids with impunity. Most conservative pundits know better than this nonsense -- not that they speak up against it. They see criticizing their own side as a sign of disloyalty. I see a coalition that has lost all perspective, partly because there's no cost to broadcasting or publishing inane bullshit. In fact, it's often very profitable. A lot of cynical people have gotten rich broadcasting and publishing red meat for movement conservative consumption.

On the biggest political story of the year, the conservative media just got its ass handed to it by the mainstream media. And movement conservatives, who believe the MSM is more biased and less rigorous than their alternatives, have no way to explain how their trusted outlets got it wrong, while the New York Times got it right. Hint: The Times hired the most rigorous forecaster it could find.

It ought to be an eye-opening moment.

But I expect that it'll be quickly forgotten, that none of the conservatives who touted a polling conspiracy will be discredited, and that the right will continue to operate at an information disadvantage. After all, it's not like they'll trust the analysis of a non-conservative like me more than the numerous fellow conservatives who constantly tell them things that turn out not to be true.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:24 PM   #166
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
I think the entire conversation has gone beyond that one. Perhaps I'm mistaken, but it sure looked to me like Radar, myself and others have taken the poll numbers discussion to speak to the broader trends prevalent among major media outlets.
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Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
I haven’t mentioned polling numbers once. No disagreement there.
Fair enough.

But I bring up the polls for a reason.

For all your crowing about the media being liberal, part of that crowing was over the course of this election season that the media was reporting on polls in ways that were overtly supportive of the Obama campaign.

You were wrong in that assessment. The media was reporting on the polls accurately. It just didn't fit your preferred narrative so you automatically assumed it was an overt slant in favor of Obama.

I think that's indicative of almost every other subject.
Income inequality?
Illegal immigration?
Healthcare?
Energy?
Foreign policy?
Developments in the Middle East?
Gay rights?

You need to explain how "the media" is treating these subjects any differently than it was treating the poll numbers, which turned out to be dead-on accurate.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:24 PM   #167
KChiefer KChiefer is offline
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Originally Posted by KCTitus View Post
...
I dont honestly think there will be another presidential election in my lifetime. Again, Im willing to accept it.
...
Are you terminally ill or just had your final dose of the Glenn Beck kool-aid?
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:25 PM   #168
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Just because he won by 50.6%? Did you believe it was a mandate then or has your opinion evolved?
I believed it was a mandate then. Why would that necessitate an evolving opinion?

I think most elections act as a mandate for the victor. The only ones that don't are the incredibly contentious, razor-thin ones, or the ones where the victor fell short of a majority, or actually lost the popular vote.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:25 PM   #169
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
R's weren't conservative enough!

/morons
Believe it or not, this is the narrative on talk radio today.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:26 PM   #170
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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I don't think it was. The guy got 50.7% of the votes. He won a bunch of states because that's how the game is set up.
Fair enough -- we clearly have differing opinions on what constitutes a mandate.

To me: if you're winning over half the vote, you've won a mandate for your agenda.

It's a democracy. You need one more yay than you do a nay.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:26 PM   #171
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Are you terminally ill or just had your final dose of the Glenn Beck kool-aid?
Nope...a realist. FTR, Beck has never stated such. Neither has Rush or Hannity. Im alone in that assessment. I could be wrong. Maybe there will be another. It will most likely between two people that are both left of center. It wont matter.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:28 PM   #172
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
Absolutely. A two party system needs a rational, fact-based opposition, as opposed to the Jesus riding a dinosaur crowd they're now courting.
Heh.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:30 PM   #173
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
You're closed minded.

Bill Maher is every bit as hateful and venomous as Ann Coulter. The shit he says and does to people that have committed no crime but to disagree with him is beyond the pale.

You're either not well-versed in the vitriol extolled by your side of the aisle, or you're just deaf to it.
Hateful and venemous is not the relevant measure. Factual or full of shit is the relevant measure and the right loses by a long ways.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:31 PM   #174
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
The same thing you're basing your opinion on - supposition based on outcomes.

The roar would've been much louder on Libya had there truly been this massive cabal of FoxNews sycophants.
You've seriously got to be kidding me.

So you're saying that Fox gets these huge ratings from casual channel-surfers, not dedicated, regular watchers?

1 in 5 Americans describe themselves as "regularly" watching Fox News.

Doesn't quite match up with the narrative you're trying to sell.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:32 PM   #175
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Dude,

Your guy won the election.

If you want to be classy about it, you might think about dialing it back a little.
lest we forget my choice.

But the main point is still valid. If you are only getting your news from Fox News, reading Drudge and listening to Limbaugh, you are getting a very slanted view of the world.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:33 PM   #176
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Ed Schultz and Chris "Tingles" Mathews. Bill Maher is easily the flip-side of the Ann Coulter coin.

And yes, Rachel Maddow qualifies as well.

I know, your guys are never as bad as their guys. Here's the problem - they absolutely are.
You're dead wrong.

You may disagree with her take on the world, but she does not regularly air distortions and blatant mistruths.

Maddow is basically a liberal George Will, should he have a TV program.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:33 PM   #177
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by mnchiefsguy View Post
You have not watched any MSNBC then. O'Donnell and Ed Schultz spew venom all the time. Bill Mahrer has had Ann Coulter on his show, he is at least her equal if not more so.
I actually agree with these comparisons.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:35 PM   #178
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Originally Posted by DJ's left nut View Post
Yeah, I'm sorry, but there's nobody on either side that beats Bill Maher.

Any time a liberal backs that guy, they are of no use to me. There isn't room for people like Bill Maher in an environment that hopes to reasonably debate anything.

Coulter is extremist and certainly vicious in her criticisms. Maher, on the other hand, I believe genuinely loathes the people he criticizes. I feel he sees no human worth in people that disagree with him.

He's the worst of the worst. But of course, the Libs swear up and down that they don't have anyone like that damn awful blonde woman...
While I'm not disagreeing about Maher, but you have to be goddamn blind not to see the same character trait in Coulter.

I'm assuming you haven't read one of her books, or have ever seen her speak on a campus.

She's not just extremist, although she is. She is atrocious.
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Old 11-08-2012, 04:36 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Yeah, no.

There is no liberal equivalent to talk radio. MSNBC is definitively liberal but is not intrinsically tied financially and politically to the Democratic Party in the way Fox News is. And coming from someone who reads both religiously, the liberal blogosphere is heads and shoulders more informed and more factual than the conservative blogosphere.
MSNBC is definitively biased, but they absolutely do not fabricate ridiculous conspiracies to the insane level that the right wing machine does.

They may spin words a bit now and then, but not to the extreme of Fox News. Mostly, they just wait and pounce with a GOTCHA! Which is childish enough without making things up...

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Old 11-08-2012, 04:36 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by KCTitus View Post

I dont honestly think there will be another presidential election in my lifetime. Again, Im willing to accept it.

I'll drop by off and on still, but for all intents and purposes the takers now outnumber the producers in this country. Congrats, you all won! Enjoy!
Are you really old, have terminal illness, or are you just realy ****ing stupid?
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