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Old 11-09-2012, 12:32 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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A tax hike for the wealthy won't kill growth.

According to the CBO.

Right as Congress and the White House get down to negotiating over the fiscal cliff.

In the image below, you can see that of all the things you could extend to avoid the fiscal cliff, extending defense spending gets the biggest bang for your GDP buck.

By far the least bang? You guessed it:



The Bush tax cuts. Especially for the wealthy.

Cutting them out, as a result, is probably the easiest means by which you can get a leg up on this massive deficit.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8A71D020121109

Tax hike for wealthy won't kill growth: CBO
By David Lawder and Kim Dixon
WASHINGTON | Thu Nov 8, 2012 9:03pm EST

(Reuters) - Allowing income tax rates to rise for wealthy Americans, and maintaining rates for the less affluent, would not hurt U.S. economic growth much in 2013, the Congressional Budget Office said on Thursday, stepping into a dispute between Republicans and Democrats over how to resolve the so-called "fiscal cliff."

The report by the authoritative non-partisan arm of Congress is expected to fuel President Barack Obama's demand for higher taxes on the rich, part of his proposal to avoid the full impact of the expiring tax cuts and across-the-board spending reductions set to begin in early 2013 unless Congress acts.

Republicans argue that any tax increases would be devastating to the economy, particularly to small businesses, and to U.S. employment rates.

They have held firm to their position that none of the cuts, which originated during the administration of President George W. Bush, should be allowed to expire.

The CBO said the tax hikes for the wealthy would reduce job growth by around 200,000 jobs, much less than the 700,000 in job losses claimed by Republican Speaker of the House John A. Boehner.

Obama has also stuck to his position, with the White House reiterating on Thursday that the president sees his election victory on Tuesday as an endorsement by voters of his view on higher taxes for the affluent.

"One of the messages that was sent by the American people throughout this campaign is ... (they) clearly chose the president's view of making sure that the wealthiest Americans are asked to do a little bit more in the context of reducing our deficit in a balanced way," senior White House adviser David Plouffe said.

UNCERTAINTY SCARING MARKETS

The disagreement over the tax cuts is a major roadblock to any agreement in Congress, as it is coupled with the spending issues also on the table.

The lack of progress in ending the standoff is spooking global markets, which fell again Thursday in part because of political uncertainty in Washington.

The concern was underscored by the credit rating agency, Standard & Poor's, which said on Thursday it sees an increasing chance that the U.S. economy will go over the cliff next year. But it also said it expects policymakers will probably compromise in time to avoid that outcome.

Analysts at the agency see about a 15 percent chance that political brinkmanship will push the world's largest economy over the fiscal cliff.

With only five days remaining before the U.S. Congress begins its post-election session, top political leaders in Washington provided little new assurance Thursday that they can act in time.

In an interview with ABC Television's Diane Sawyer, Boehner repeated what he has been saying for two years: "Raising tax rates is unacceptable. ... Frankly, it couldn't even pass the House. I'm not sure it could pass the Senate," he said, according to a transcript provided by the network.

The Democratic White House did not respond publicly to an initiative launched on Wednesday by Boehner to get talks going to avoid the cliff. The president is scheduled to make a statement on the economy Friday.

In the absence of concrete developments, the CBO report became the focus of argument Thursday. Reports by the CBO are designed to assist Congress in making difficult fiscal decisions, but they are also used by partisans to bolster their own arguments.

A statement from the Republican-controlled House Ways and Means Committee said the CBO report "confirms that raising taxes on all taxpayers will result in fewer ‘help wanted' signs hanging in the windows of businesses across the country. Job creators agree, and have made it clear, that raising taxes will result in a weaker economy and fewer jobs for the millions of Americans struggling to find work."

Democratic Rep. Chris Van Hollen, ranking member of the House Budget Committee, said the report "underscores the need to prevent the so-called fiscal cliff from harming American families and businesses, and to instead enact a balanced, long-term deficit reduction plan."

The term "balanced" plan is the Democratic code for tax increases.

The tax cuts were enacted during the Bush administration, but were made temporary, in part to reduce the appearance of exploding the already soaring U.S. deficit over the long term.

They were extended in 2010 for two years under an agreement between Republicans and Obama, after Republicans swept the mid-term elections that year and took control of the House.

That extension is running out, just as the trigger date arrives for automatic spending cuts Congress approved in 2011 as part of a deal to avoid a default on U.S. government debt.

VARIOUS SCENARIOS

The report from CBO laid out the economic effects of a number of options that lawmakers will consider as they deal with the fiscal cliff events.

The CBO said extending all of the tax cuts would boost U.S. gross domestic product growth next year by a little less than 1.5 percentage points.

If the tax rates were extended only for individuals earning less than $200,000 and couples earnings less than $250,000, CBO said, growth would rise by 1.25 percent.

Wall Street estimates show third-quarter GDP growth was 2.8 percent. Unemployment is currently at 7.9 percent.

Eliminating the automatic spending cuts to military and domestic programs would add back 0.75 percentage points of growth, as would extending an expiring payroll tax cut and long- term unemployment benefits that are expected to end next year, the CBO said.

But the office also warned of the consequences of taking such actions without reducing deficits that have run at $1 trillion in each of the past four years.

"CBO expects that even if all of the fiscal tightening was eliminated, the economy would remain below its potential and the unemployment rate would remain higher than usual for some time," the report said.
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:54 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
We wont go into a recession asking the rich to pay the same tax rate as they did under Clinton.

You want a strong America. Strengthen the middle class, not the rich.

And didnt we have an election? WTF won? Was the tea party elected president and I fell asleep and missed it?
I was just reading that the tax increase on "the rich" that Obama wants (35% to 39%?) will bring in another $70 billion annually maximum. And, according to the above article, cost 200,000 jobs. That sounds good to you?
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Old 11-09-2012, 02:59 PM   #17
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You realize people can still hold their same opinions on taxes even after the election took place, right?
Yes of course.

We had an election. Obama said I'm going to give everyone a tax break up to the first $250K of income. If you make more than that, good for you. Romney said tax breaks for all. Obama won. The election decided this issue. Elections have consequences.
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:00 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Yes of course.

We had an election. Obama said I'm going to give everyone a tax break up to the first $250K of income. If you make more than that, good for you. Romney said tax breaks for all. Obama won. The election decided this issue. Elections have consequences.
Just so we are clear: not raising taxes is now a "tax break"?
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:01 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
I was just reading that the tax increase on "the rich" that Obama wants (35% to 39%?) will bring in another $70 billion annually maximum. And, according to the above article, cost 200,000 jobs. That sounds good to you?
Since when do r's believe the CBO? I thought they were biased?
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:01 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
We wont go into a recession asking the rich to pay the same tax rate as they did under Clinton.

You want a strong America. Strengthen the middle class, not the rich.

And didnt we have an election? WTF won? Was the tea party elected president and I fell asleep and missed it?
I hate to break this to you but we didn't elect a king. This might be the dumbest thing I've seen in a while. WTF are you talking about here?
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:02 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Yes of course.

We had an election. Obama said I'm going to give everyone a tax break up to the first $250K of income. If you make more than that, good for you. Romney said tax breaks for all. Obama won. The election decided this issue. Elections have consequences.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:04 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
Just so we are clear: not raising taxes is now a "tax break"?
It was a temporary tax break. A temporary one to stimulate the economy. Instead it blew up the deficit.

It's gone. You can debate all you want the merits of that position but its a done deal. Those tax breaks for the rich are gone. Obama cant allow those to stand and govern. His party will run away.
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:05 PM   #23
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It was a temporary tax break. A temporary one to stimulate the economy. Instead it blew up the deficit.

It's gone. You can debate all you want the merits of that position but its a done deal. Those tax breaks for the rich are gone. Obama cant allow those to stand and govern. His party will run away.
You didn't answer my question, but I understand why.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:07 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
It was a temporary tax break. A temporary one to stimulate the economy. Instead it blew up the deficit.

It's gone. You can debate all you want the merits of that position but its a done deal. Those tax breaks for the rich are gone. Obama cant allow those to stand and govern. His party will run away.
If that tax is imposed it won't be due to obama governing. It will be due to Boehner wresting concessions that make up for it.
obama doesn't govern, he can't. He doesn't have the stones for it and the Rs, and anyone else that ever sits across the bargaining table from the boy president, knows it.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:08 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
It was a temporary tax break. A temporary one to stimulate the economy. Instead it blew up the deficit.

It's gone. You can debate all you want the merits of that position but its a done deal. Those tax breaks for the rich are gone. Obama cant allow those to stand and govern. His party will run away.
When they’re gone you’re going to see less money in your paycheck. Are you “rich” too?
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:09 PM   #26
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You can drop the talking points now.
It is not a talking point. It's a straight up pure fact.

This country build the largest middle class in the history of the world after WWII. It's the reason we gained so much power post WWII. The reason we are the economic leader of the world. No one is even close.

We strengthen the middle class, we strengthen our economy and America. It's the middle class, stupid.
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:09 PM   #27
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Since when do r's believe the CBO? I thought they were biased?
Not I. So, you think that $70 billion annually with 200,000 lost jobs is worth socking it to "the rich" knowing that we have trillion dollar deficits?
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:12 PM   #28
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When they’re gone you’re going to see less money in your paycheck. Are you “rich” too?
Working on it.
Had an interview with the largest hedge fund in the world today.
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Originally Posted by MTG#10 View Post
I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:13 PM   #29
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Not I. So, you think that $70 billion annually with 200,000 lost jobs is worth socking it to "the rich" knowing that we have trillion dollar deficits?
I'm not accepting your numbers as facts.
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Originally Posted by MTG#10 View Post
I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 11-09-2012, 03:14 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
Those Bush era tax cuts for the rich are gone. No ****ing way Obama doesn't make that policy, no matter what.
It would be nice if the Libs would at least call this what it really is, and stop with the misleading rhetoric.

12 years ago the tax rates were reduced for everyone. Those rates have been in place for 12 years. That is the status quo. I'd say it's the new normal, but it's over 12 years old, so it is just the normal.

The Republicans aren't asking for tax cuts for the rich. The Democrats are demanding tax increases on the rich. At least call it what it really is.
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