Int'l Issues November 29: The UN will vote to recognize Palestine as a "state." - Page 26

Direckshun · 11-13-2012, 09:54 PM

Currently, Palestine is a non-member observer entity in the UN.

The Palestinians have pressed forth to introduce a measure to upgrade them in the UN's eyes to a non-member observer state.

While being upgraded from non-member observer entity to non-member observer state doesn't sound like much, it does provide Palestine an opportunity to actually contribute and perform within the UN.

Most damning, of course, is that it would tell Israel and the United States that their treatment of Palestine is tantamount to suppression of what should be a legitimate, free country. An act bordering on apartheid, which the ICC (run by the UN, which could soon include Palestine) as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them." I don't regard that as a possibility.

But essentially, this has the ability to be a game changer in favor of two-state negotiations in favor of the Palestinian people, as opposed to the Likud/GOP alliance, which does not want any such two-state solution. All the facts on the ground right now favor Israel, as they expand their land, take more of the Palestinian land, and pretend with each passing year that the '67 borders with agreed-upon land swaps is some crime against Israel's humanity.

The only real arrow in Palestine's quiver is international opinion. And this particular vote in the UN cannot be unilaterally shot down by the United States, so it is sure to be voted on, and sure to be passed by roughly 75% of the UN.

As such, the United States and Israel are, understandably, freaking the **** out. The US is threatening to withdraw funding for much of the UN. Israel is threatening to discard the Oslo Accord, which allowed Palestine self-governance. This could potentially mean apartheid in everything but name.

So things are going to get really, really fascinating.

I ultimately think that Israel and the US' bark is worse than their bite. Obama prides himself on effective diplomacy which cannot happen if he's going to war with the UN. Israel's Netanyahu is far less concerned with international opinion, but doesn't want Israel to end up on the wrong side of the distinction between internationally frowned-upon to internationally despised. Though he may be heading that way anyway.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...rver-state-bid

Palestinians Defy Obama With UN ‘Observer State’ Bid
By Flavia Krause-Jackson
on November 08, 2012

Palestinians defied newly re-elected U.S. President Barack Obama by pushing ahead with a second statehood bid at the United Nations that will raise their profile at the world body and highlight the stagnation of the Mideast peace process.

The Palestinian Authority yesterday circulated a resolution to put the Palestine Liberation Organization on a par with the Holy See, according to a draft that will be put to a vote in the UN’s 193-member General Assembly, where the initiative has enough support to pass and the U.S. lacks veto power.

The latest steps by the Palestinians present Obama with his first foreign-policy challenge three days after he won a second term. A year ago, the Palestinians abandoned an attempt to be recognized as a full member state through the Security Council after Obama indicated the U.S. would use its veto there.

The PLO, which currently is an observer “entity,” is seeking a nonmember “observer state status,” according to the draft obtained by Bloomberg News.

By resurrecting the statehood issue in the General Assembly, the Palestinian leadership is trying to force the White House to pay attention to a moribund Palestinian-Israeli peace process that has dropped off the list of foreign-policy priorities for Obama.

In doing so, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is jeopardizing relations with Obama, as well as about $500 million in U.S. economic and security aid that members of Congress have threatened to cut if Palestinians proceed at the UN.

Issue Fades

The Palestinians have seen their cause fall into relative obscurity internationally since formal peace talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government were frozen two years ago.

Peace talks stumbled over the issue of Jewish settlements in the West Bank, which Israel captured from Jordan in the 1967 Six-Day War. Abbas said he wouldn’t return to negotiations unless Israel froze all settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem. Netanyahu has refused to renew a 10-month freeze on construction that expired in 2010.

Abbas will present the resolution in person in New York, according to a UN official speaking on condition of anonymity. A vote is expected to take place by the end of the month, the official said.

Still, the move isn’t without risks.

When the Palestinian Authority was accepted last year into the UN cultural agency UNESCO, best known for its designation of “world heritage” sites, the U.S. response was to cut off funding that provides almost a quarter of the agency’s budget.

The U.S. has said that American law would require similar cutoffs for any UN agency that grants the Palestinians the same status as member states.

International Criminal Court

The upgrade may open the door for Palestinians to join other UN agencies, including the International Criminal Court, where they could ask for Israel to be tried for war crimes.

“Israel’s main worry is the ICC,” Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat said in an Oct. 24 interview. “They don’t want me to have a sword on their neck.”

The initiative could also jeopardize international aid that accounts for about 14 percent of the Palestinians’ gross domestic product and invite retaliatory measures from Israel.

As for the U.S., the administration’s position hasn’t wavered. The U.S. ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, has said repeatedly that “unilateral actions,” such as the upgrade of the Palestinians’ UN status, would only derail efforts to restart direct peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.

HonestChieffan · 11-20-2012, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I'd check the OP.

World opinion's already heavily in support of a free Palestine.

Russia
Venezuela
All Muslim Countries

world opinion

stevieray · 11-20-2012, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

There's a lot of things that "have" to happen.

I'm not convinced that's one of them.

and there it is... a right to exist doesn't need to happen...coupled with I'm very not Hamas...I don't buy it....you have no logical reason to be so emotionally attached.....trotting out comlete sympathy for for one group, while totally rejecting it for another..it is so hypocritical I don't know how anyone can take you seriously..Id bet almost anything you will never explain why this means so much to you...my guess is you rebellion against your conservative upbringing...it's like the preachers daughter becoming a slut.

the delusion is completely mindboggling...arabs in palestine have a right to statehood, but Israel doesn't have a right to exist...literally thousands of rockets fired into Israel,but hey, the Arabs were provoked, so they get a pass.. and they want to destroy Israel and yet these Arabs deserve and should be rewarded statehood? Funny how it never mattered in the past...know why? there wasn't a need..know why? the offical recognizement of Jews back in their homeland.

You support murder....

Nafman87 · 11-21-2012, 03:39 AM

Bomb on bus in heart of Tel Aviv next to the Kirya, which is Israel's Pentagon.

Nafman87 · 11-21-2012, 04:13 AM

And in gaza the Arabs are dancing and shooting their guns in the air. These people want peace? Give me a break

ForeverChiefs58 · 11-21-2012, 06:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nafman87

And in gaza the Arabs are dancing and shooting their guns in the air. These people want peace? Give me a break

Maybe we can expect more from the people in West Bank?

Oops, guess not.

West Bank Palestinians cheer on their Gaza counterparts

Palestinians in the West Bank have staged solidarity marches, praising Gaza's rocket strikes on Israel and calling for an end to the diplomacy track with Israel

"We cheer for the all rockets, especially the ones on Tel Aviv," chanted a voice from the booming sound system at the head of a parade of demonstrators in Al Manara Square, at the center of Ramallah. "Negotiations are dead.''

"In every street and every alleyway, Palestinians from all factions are coming out," says legislator Abduljaber Fuqahaa. "For them, the resistance is the only way."

http://news.yahoo.com/west-bank-pale...V9jb3Jl;_ylv=3

HonestChieffan · 11-21-2012, 06:31 AM

Hillary will fix it.

**mlyonsd** · 11-21-2012, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Direckshun

I'd check the OP.

World opinion's already heavily in support of a free Palestine.

Yeah not really when they are in rocket lobbing mode.

Do you think the entire peace process would be jump started and put on a faster track if Hamas would recognize Israel?

ForeverChiefs58 · 11-21-2012, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nafman87

And in gaza the Arabs are dancing and shooting their guns in the air. These people want peace? Give me a break

I was wondering what you thought of Abbas, the PA and Fatah?

Do you view him as "moderate", or caring about peace? Or is it more rinse and repeat of what was there before?

Thanks for your insight

Direckshun · 11-21-2012, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlyonsd

Yeah not really when they are in rocket lobbing mode.

Do you think the entire peace process would be jump started and put on a faster track if Hamas would recognize Israel?

I do, yes. I think there are several things that would put peace on a faster track -- that would be one of them.

You understand that Hamas, therefore, won't do that.

ForeverChiefs58 · 11-21-2012, 10:10 AM

This should be an act of war punished by nukes

Iranian Commander: Iran missile technology sent to Gaza

TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran has supplied Hamas in Gaza with the technology to "quickly" produce longer-range missiles on their own without needing direct shipments, said a report Wednesday that quoted the head of Iran's powerful Revolutionary Guard.

The comments by Gen. Mohammad Ali Jafari offer some of the clearest insights on Iran's weapons support for Hamas, whose Iranian-engineered Fajr-5 missiles have struck near Tel Aviv and Jerusalem during weeklong battles with Israel.

"Gaza is under siege, so we cannot help them. The Fajr-5 missiles have not been shipped from Iran. Its technology has been transferred and (the missiles are) being produced quickly," Jafari was quoted as saying by the semiofficial ISNA news agency.

Iran has repeatedly denied it directly supplied Hamas with the Fajr-5. The ISNA report gave no further details on the level of missile know-how sent to Gaza or the channels used.

Israel charges that Iran sends weapons, including rockets, to Gaza through a network of smuggling tunnels under the 15-kilometer (9-mile) border between Gaza and Egypt.

Iran also backs the anti-Israel faction Hezbollah in Lebanon, which fired thousands of rockets into Israel during a monthlong 2006 war.

Iran's parliament speaker, Ali Larijani, meanwhile, said his country was "honored" that Iran could help Palestinians with "material and military aspects." He did not elaborate.

He criticized Arab countries for failing to help arm Hamas and other Palestinian groups. "The Palestinian nation does not need speeches and meetings. Arab countries should send military aid," he was quoted as saying by the semiofficial Fars news agency.

Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei also chided other Muslim nations for not rallying behind Gaza in the latest showdown with Israel.

"Some of them sufficed with words, and some others did not condemn Israel', Khamenei said, according to the official Islamic Republic News Agency.

Israel has carried out hundreds of airstrikes in Gaza over the past week in an operation it says is meant to stop daily rocket salvos by Gaza militants at Israel.

Iran and Israel are bitter enemies, and the two nations are locked in a deepening dispute over Iran's nuclear program. The West and others fear Iran could eventually produce nuclear weapons, and Israel has left open the option of staging a military strike at its nuclear facilities.

Iran says its nuclear program is for peaceful purposes

http://news.yahoo.com/commander-iran...144357088.html

HonestChieffan · 11-21-2012, 10:11 AM

Arab Spring coming to full flower.....

Direckshun · 11-21-2012, 10:41 AM

Why the ceasefire fell through:

Quote:

The reality, it emerged on Wednesday, is that both sides were facing internal opposition to the proposed ceasefire. In Israel, according to some reports, a cabinet split saw the defence minister, Ehud Barak, prepared to accept the ceasefire originally on offer while the prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, and foreign minister, Avigdor Lieberman, were opposed. That split, some analysts have speculated, may have as much to do with Israel's internal politics, with an election on the horizon, as the substance of any deal.

On the Palestinian side the argument was even more complicated, pitting factions within Hamas who were happy to accept a ceasefire against hardliners around Mohamed Deif, Hamas's military commander and other groups, who seek an immediate lifting of the blockade and opening of the Rafah border crossing. In Hamas itself there has been growing competition both between the military side, which has taken increasing prominence, and the political wing, and between Khalid Meshaal, the main leader in exile, and the Hamas prime minister, Ismail Haniya.

HonestChieffan · 11-21-2012, 11:08 AM

http://rt.com/news/gaza-israel-hamas-attack-687/

Hamas and their allies will push this too far. This is a good site to keep up without our media's spin

HonestChieffan · 11-21-2012, 11:17 AM

Reporting another cease fire agreement.....who knows how many times this will happen

Donger · 11-21-2012, 11:27 AM

Looks like Hillary threatened to send nudie pictures of herself to both sides.

11-13-2012, 09:54 PM
Direckshun Black for Palestine Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Springpatch Casino cash: $1166575	November 29: The UN will vote to recognize Palestine as a "state." Currently, Palestine is a non-member observer entity in the UN. The Palestinians have pressed forth to introduce a measure to upgrade them in the UN's eyes to a non-member observer state. While being upgraded from non-member observer entity to non-member observer state doesn't sound like much, it does provide Palestine an opportunity to actually contribute and perform within the UN. Most damning, of course, is that it would tell Israel and the United States that their treatment of Palestine is tantamount to suppression of what should be a legitimate, free country. An act bordering on apartheid, which the ICC (run by the UN, which could soon include Palestine) as "inhuman acts committed for the purpose of establishing and maintaining domination by one racial group of persons over any other racial group of persons and systematically oppressing them." I don't regard that as a possibility. But essentially, this has the ability to be a game changer in favor of two-state negotiations in favor of the Palestinian people, as opposed to the Likud/GOP alliance, which does not want any such two-state solution. All the facts on the ground right now favor Israel, as they expand their land, take more of the Palestinian land, and pretend with each passing year that the '67 borders with agreed-upon land swaps is some crime against Israel's humanity. The only real arrow in Palestine's quiver is international opinion. And this particular vote in the UN cannot be unilaterally shot down by the United States, so it is sure to be voted on, and sure to be passed by roughly 75% of the UN. As such, the United States and Israel are, understandably, freaking the **** out. The US is threatening to withdraw funding for much of the UN. Israel is threatening to discard the Oslo Accord, which allowed Palestine self-governance. This could potentially mean apartheid in everything but name. So things are going to get really, really fascinating. I ultimately think that Israel and the US' bark is worse than their bite. Obama prides himself on effective diplomacy which cannot happen if he's going to war with the UN. Israel's Netanyahu is far less concerned with international opinion, but doesn't want Israel to end up on the wrong side of the distinction between internationally frowned-upon to internationally despised. Though he may be heading that way anyway. http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...rver-state-bid Palestinians Defy Obama With UN ‘Observer State’ Bid By Flavia Krause-Jackson on November 08, 2012 Palestinians defied newly re-elected U.S. President Barack Obama by pushing ahead with a second statehood bid at the United Nations that will raise their profile at the world body and highlight the stagnation of the Mideast peace process. The Palestinian Authority yesterday circulated a resolution to put the Palestine Liberation Organization on a par with the Holy See, according to a draft that will be put to a vote in the UN’s 193-member General Assembly, where the initiative has enough support to pass and the U.S. lacks veto power. The latest steps by the Palestinians present Obama with his first foreign-policy challenge three days after he won a second term. A year ago, the Palestinians abandoned an attempt to be recognized as a full member state through the Security Council after Obama indicated the U.S. would use its veto there. The PLO, which currently is an observer “entity,” is seeking a nonmember “observer state status,” according to the draft obtained by Bloomberg News. By resurrecting the statehood issue in the General Assembly, the Palestinian leadership is trying to force the White House to pay attention to a moribund Palestinian-Israeli peace process that has dropped off the list of foreign-policy priorities for Obama. In doing so, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas is jeopardizing relations with Obama, as well as about $500 million in U.S. economic and security aid that members of Congress have threatened to cut if Palestinians proceed at the UN. Issue Fades The Palestinians have seen their cause fall into relative obscurity internationally since formal peace talks with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s government were frozen two years ago. Peace talks stumbled over the issue of Jewish settlements in the West Bank, which Israel captured from Jordan in the 1967 Six-Day War. Abbas said he wouldn’t return to negotiations unless Israel froze all settlement construction in the West Bank and east Jerusalem. Netanyahu has refused to renew a 10-month freeze on construction that expired in 2010. Abbas will present the resolution in person in New York, according to a UN official speaking on condition of anonymity. A vote is expected to take place by the end of the month, the official said. Still, the move isn’t without risks. When the Palestinian Authority was accepted last year into the UN cultural agency UNESCO, best known for its designation of “world heritage” sites, the U.S. response was to cut off funding that provides almost a quarter of the agency’s budget. The U.S. has said that American law would require similar cutoffs for any UN agency that grants the Palestinians the same status as member states. International Criminal Court The upgrade may open the door for Palestinians to join other UN agencies, including the International Criminal Court, where they could ask for Israel to be tried for war crimes. “Israel’s main worry is the ICC,” Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erakat said in an Oct. 24 interview. “They don’t want me to have a sword on their neck.” The initiative could also jeopardize international aid that accounts for about 14 percent of the Palestinians’ gross domestic product and invite retaliatory measures from Israel. As for the U.S., the administration’s position hasn’t wavered. The U.S. ambassador to the UN, Susan Rice, has said repeatedly that “unilateral actions,” such as the upgrade of the Palestinians’ UN status, would only derail efforts to restart direct peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.
Posts: 37,496

11-21-2012, 03:39 AM	#378
Nafman87 Rookie Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $3425	Bomb on bus in heart of Tel Aviv next to the Kirya, which is Israel's Pentagon.
Posts: 15

11-21-2012, 04:13 AM	#379
Nafman87 Rookie Join Date: Nov 2012 Casino cash: $3425	And in gaza the Arabs are dancing and shooting their guns in the air. These people want peace? Give me a break
Posts: 15

11-21-2012, 06:31 AM	#381
HonestChieffan Hoffa called me an SOB Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the Country in MO Casino cash: $1220454	Hillary will fix it. __________________ "The best time to sell peanuts is when the circus is in town."
Posts: 21,901

11-21-2012, 10:10 AM	#385
ForeverChiefs58 MVP Join Date: Mar 2009 Casino cash: $577846	This should be an act of war punished by nukes Iranian Commander: Iran missile technology sent to Gaza TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran has supplied Hamas in Gaza with the technology to "quickly" produce longer-range missiles on their own without needing direct shipments, said a report Wednesday that quoted the head of Iran's powerful Revolutionary Guard. The comments by Gen. Mohammad Ali Jafari offer some of the clearest insights on Iran's weapons support for Hamas, whose Iranian-engineered Fajr-5 missiles have struck near Tel Aviv and Jerusalem during weeklong battles with Israel. "Gaza is under siege, so we cannot help them. The Fajr-5 missiles have not been shipped from Iran. Its technology has been transferred and (the missiles are) being produced quickly," Jafari was quoted as saying by the semiofficial ISNA news agency. Iran has repeatedly denied it directly supplied Hamas with the Fajr-5. The ISNA report gave no further details on the level of missile know-how sent to Gaza or the channels used. Israel charges that Iran sends weapons, including rockets, to Gaza through a network of smuggling tunnels under the 15-kilometer (9-mile) border between Gaza and Egypt. Iran also backs the anti-Israel faction Hezbollah in Lebanon, which fired thousands of rockets into Israel during a monthlong 2006 war. Iran's parliament speaker, Ali Larijani, meanwhile, said his country was "honored" that Iran could help Palestinians with "material and military aspects." He did not elaborate. He criticized Arab countries for failing to help arm Hamas and other Palestinian groups. "The Palestinian nation does not need speeches and meetings. Arab countries should send military aid," he was quoted as saying by the semiofficial Fars news agency. Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei also chided other Muslim nations for not rallying behind Gaza in the latest showdown with Israel. "Some of them sufficed with words, and some others did not condemn Israel', Khamenei said, according to the official Islamic Republic News Agency. Israel has carried out hundreds of airstrikes in Gaza over the past week in an operation it says is meant to stop daily rocket salvos by Gaza militants at Israel. Iran and Israel are bitter enemies, and the two nations are locked in a deepening dispute over Iran's nuclear program. The West and others fear Iran could eventually produce nuclear weapons, and Israel has left open the option of staging a military strike at its nuclear facilities. Iran says its nuclear program is for peaceful purposes http://news.yahoo.com/commander-iran...144357088.html
Posts: 5,999

11-21-2012, 10:11 AM	#386
HonestChieffan Hoffa called me an SOB Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the Country in MO Casino cash: $1220454	Arab Spring coming to full flower..... __________________ "The best time to sell peanuts is when the circus is in town."
Posts: 21,901

11-21-2012, 11:08 AM	#388
HonestChieffan Hoffa called me an SOB Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the Country in MO Casino cash: $1220454	http://rt.com/news/gaza-israel-hamas-attack-687/ Hamas and their allies will push this too far. This is a good site to keep up without our media's spin __________________ "The best time to sell peanuts is when the circus is in town."
Posts: 21,901

11-21-2012, 11:17 AM	#389
HonestChieffan Hoffa called me an SOB Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the Country in MO Casino cash: $1220454	Reporting another cease fire agreement.....who knows how many times this will happen __________________ "The best time to sell peanuts is when the circus is in town."
Posts: 21,901

11-21-2012, 11:27 AM	#390
Donger "Think BOOM!" Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: 33.675° N 106.475° W Casino cash: $53	Looks like Hillary threatened to send nudie pictures of herself to both sides. __________________ I think the young people enjoy it when I "get down," verbally, don't you?
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