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Old 11-14-2012, 08:13 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is online now
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Classic Obama double-speak

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Obama said the top priority in solving the country's fiscal crisis "must be jobs and growth."
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White House press secretary Jay Carney said the president would bring to the table a proposal for $1.6 trillion in new taxes on business and the wealthy when he begins discussions with congressional Republicans, a figure that Obama outlined in his most recent budget plan. The targeted revenue is twice the amount Obama discussed with Republican leaders during debt talks during the summer of 2011.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/49821777

Ok, you can't say on one hand your #1 priority is "jobs and growth" and on the other hand talk about raising taxes on business.

For the economically challenged, raising taxes on businesses raises the cost of doing business which does not spur job creation nor growth of the economy.

I swear listening to this Admin and his party makes me feel like I took a handfull of crazy pills sometimes.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:20 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Yeah, I never thought of the govt being able to get the cheapest rates ever.
If you are in debt, you want a 0% interest rate.

The worlds biggest debtor is the US federal government. They control the interest rate, so....

Who cares about retirees who planned their retirements for the last 30 years on getting a 3 to 4% interest rate on their savings?

**** em, they can eat dog food.

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Old 11-14-2012, 10:21 PM   #122
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
NO! Why? Because you are offsetting that cost by putting more disposable income into the economy.

In other words, if I am spending $200 a month less on gas and food I am spending that $200 in your store. That increases your customer base thus allowing to compensate for higher interest rates

The government gets more $ through increased sales tax and incomes from the increased spending in businesses


See, that's called growing the tax base. As a business owner it would be easier to handle higher rates if I have more people walking through my door because they have more money to spend in my shop instead of the gas station.

On the other hand if customers are still spending out the ass at the gas station they don't have extra $ to spend in my shop and higher taxes are going to hurt even worse.
But that two hundred dollars will now go towards your car payment, credit cards and loans. I just dont see that it would make a real difference.
The business would also have to pay higher interest rates, therefor charging that same customer more.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:22 PM   #123
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Originally Posted by Literature View Post
If a small business takes out a line of credit at their bank, what is their payment rate based on?

Low rates will have to go up again, but it's not because that will make groceries cheaper.
And therein lies the problem, Jenson. All this talk about helping the middle-class and all that is bunk as long as the $ stays at these low levels. Plus there are all other sorts of bad consequences that go with it.

Right now the biggest tax break you could give to all americans without touching the tax code is to strengthen the $ to the price at the pump and grocery store come down. People will spend that extra money and business will be more than happy to pay a little higher rate.

Lower costs of borrowing only make sense when there is a reason to borrow. If I own a business and I have less and less people walking through my door, I don't care how low rates are, I am not going to increase my borrowing because there is no driving need to do so. That was the problemw ith Obama's approach when he tried to make it easier for businesses to borrow for new equipment. If they are seeing a drop off in sales, why would they borrow more?
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:22 PM   #124
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Anybody taking Pete's word on economic and finance policy should just keep in mind that this is the guy who believes aliens built the pyramids.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:23 PM   #125
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Originally Posted by Tom.Jay61 View Post
If you are in debt, you want a 0% interest rate.

The worlds biggest debtor is the US federal government. They control the interest rate, so....

Who cares about retirees who planned their retirements for the last 30 years on getting a 3 to 4% interest rate on their savings?

**** em, they can eat dog food.

3%-4% That's a joke right now. You're lucky to get 2% on anything in a bank that would be considered "savings"
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:24 PM   #126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom.Jay61 View Post
If you are in debt, you want a 0% interest rate.

The worlds biggest debtor is the US federal government. They control the interest rate, so....

Who cares about retirees who planned their retirements for the last 30 years on getting a 3 to 4% interest rate on their savings?

**** em, they can eat dog food.

What are these people investing in to get that 3 to 4 percent return nullified?
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:25 PM   #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Literature View Post
Anybody taking Pete's word on economic and finance policy should just keep in mind that this is the guy who believes aliens built the pyramids.
He's making some valid points.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:25 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
3%-4% That's a joke right now. You're lucky to get 2% on anything in a bank that would be considered "savings"
Yeah. It's really bad. No sense in saving with that kind of return.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:27 PM   #129
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Originally Posted by chiefforlife View Post
But that two hundred dollars will now go towards your car payment, credit cards and loans. I just dont see that it would make a real difference.
The business would also have to pay higher interest rates, therefor charging that same customer more.
Well, of course anyone with debt in this scenario pays back with cheaper dollars. However, in continues to encourage debt and where's that at? Besides, you're still getting poorer at the same time.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:29 PM   #130
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Originally Posted by chiefforlife View Post
But that two hundred dollars will now go towards your car payment, credit cards and loans. I just dont see that it would make a real difference.
The business would also have to pay higher interest rates, therefor charging that same customer more.
I think you need to re-think that just a TAD!

I cannot help people who make bad financial decisions like takeing out a variable mortgage with the expectation rates will never go up and if they do they **** that person. That's on them, sadly and sorry.

Car payment: If I have a car payment currently I am already paying on it so the lower cost of goods make it easier for me to pay that payment and still have spending money

Credit Cards: Yes, rates would go up. Go back to my point on mortgages for this.

Business would pay higher rates but in the context of increased business. As opposed to higher taxes with decreased business. I'll take the former over the latter all day long.

The fact is lower gas and food prices benefit EVERYONE! The trucking company may have to pay a higher rate on new truck purchases but the cost of fuel is down and their business revenues are up due to the increased disposable income in the economy.

It's an overall win due to the increased spending power for everyone. Especially the lower incomes.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:36 PM   #131
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Yeah. It's really bad. No sense in saving with that kind of return.
You're actually losing money because the inflation rate in twice that.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:37 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Yeah. It's really bad. No sense in saving with that kind of return.
Which brings me to seniors on a fixed income.

Someone who is retired and say has $300k in s savings account. Right now after taxes and inflation they are net-net losing money. On a savings account!!! So that forces them into riskier investments like bonds and stocks. No place for someone in that situation but what choice do they have. Suddenly they are at the mercy of Wall St.

So naturally that person is most likely spending less and less because they are trying to preserve their capital.

Now put them in a situation where they are earning 4%-5% on a CD again and suddenly they are hitting the gut-buster more often.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:37 PM   #133
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Originally Posted by petegz28 View Post
I think you need to re-think that just a TAD!

I cannot help people who make bad financial decisions like takeing out a variable mortgage with the expectation rates will never go up and if they do they **** that person. That's on them, sadly and sorry.

Car payment: If I have a car payment currently I am already paying on it so the lower cost of goods make it easier for me to pay that payment and still have spending money

Credit Cards: Yes, rates would go up. Go back to my point on mortgages for this.

Business would pay higher rates but in the context of increased business. As opposed to higher taxes with decreased business. I'll take the former over the latter all day long.

The fact is lower gas and food prices benefit EVERYONE! The trucking company may have to pay a higher rate on new truck purchases but the cost of fuel is down and their business revenues are up due to the increased disposable income in the economy.

It's an overall win due to the increased spending power for everyone. Especially the lower incomes.
Interesting, I have to admit, I had never really thought about it that way.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:38 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
He's making some valid points.
This whole inverse proportionate gas & grocery/interest rate thing is a bit loose in fact, to put it mildly.
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Old 11-14-2012, 10:40 PM   #135
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I'm just saying that a stronger $ benefits an economy. Lower interest rates have their place but just like anything, too much of anything is a bad thing. We have had rates too low for too long and it is impacting us in the worst way at the worst time. Right now we should be easing the burden of gas and food prices, not increasing them.
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