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Old 03-12-2005, 11:07 PM  
milkman milkman is offline
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So many people want to trade the 2nd round pick....

....citing Carl's piss poor 2nd round draft record as a reason that a 2nd for Surtain is a no brainer.

Yet these same people are drooling over the prospect of picking that 1st round CB, or LB, or even WR.

Maybe I'm missing something here, but isn't Carl's 1st round draft record nearly as pathetic as his 2nd round record?

What makes any of you think we'll get a stud in the 1st round?

I just don't get it.
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Old 03-12-2005, 11:14 PM   #2
beer bacon beer bacon is offline
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Good idea. Who do you think we can trade our first pick for?
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Old 03-12-2005, 11:17 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beer baron
Good idea. Who do you think we can trade our first pick for?
A 12 pack of beer...

Knowing Carl he'll **** that up too.
Get some Milwaukees best or something.
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Old 03-12-2005, 11:18 PM   #4
milkman milkman is offline
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How about Takeo Spikes?

Think the Bills would go for it?
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Old 03-12-2005, 11:28 PM   #5
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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nah..its not nearly as bad.......

Derrick Thomas
Dale Carter
Tony Gonzalez
Larry Johnson
John Tait


Its harder to screw up a first round pick though..
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Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning:

Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down.

One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
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Old 03-12-2005, 11:31 PM   #6
Amnorix Amnorix is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990
nah..its not nearly as bad.......

Derrick Thomas
Dale Carter
Tony Gonzalez
Larry Johnson
John Tait


Its harder to screw up a first round pick though..
Yeah, but it's still pretty easy. First round failure rate (in terms of either flat out busts or seriously underperforming what you'd expect for a 1st rounder) is damn near 50%.

That list includes quite a few pro bowls between those guys. Pretty good record. But in the current free agency era you need to hit on more than 1st rounders, and I know that's ChiefsPlanet's complaint about Carl.
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Old 03-12-2005, 11:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990
nah..its not nearly as bad.......

Derrick Thomas
Dale Carter
Tony Gonzalez
Larry Johnson
John Tait


Its harder to screw up a first round pick though..
You just named 5 guys out 15 drafts, and Tait didn't really play up to his draft position, which is the reason he got moved from the left to right tackle, and Roaf was brought in.

Amnorix tells us it's a 50% failure rate, but even if you include Tait, Carl's failure rate is 66%.
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Old 03-12-2005, 11:48 PM   #8
keg in kc keg in kc is offline
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The Patriots got Duane Starks for a low 3rd round pick. I realize that Surtain is two years younger and didn't miss the 2003 season due to injury, but I still fail to see how his value is so much higher than Starks that he rates a high 2nd round pick in compensation in the face of the market the Patriots established.

JMO.
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Old 03-12-2005, 11:53 PM   #9
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SideWinder
You just named 5 guys out 15 drafts, and Tait didn't really play up to his draft position, which is the reason he got moved from the left to right tackle, and Roaf was brought in.

Amnorix tells us it's a 50% failure rate, but even if you include Tait, Carl's failure rate is 66%.
hes had a few more like Victor Riley, greg Hill, Harvey Williams who were not complete busts..and a couple more like SlyMo and Percy Snow who just had bad luck with injurys......so its not all that bad.
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Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning:

Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down.

One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
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Old 03-12-2005, 11:54 PM   #10
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Here's all of Carl's 1st rounders. Numerical position of the pick in parentheses.

Derrick Thomas (4)
Percy Snow (13)
Harvey Williams (21)
Dale Carter (20)
Greg Hill (25)
Trezelle Jenkins (31)
Jerome Woods (28)
Tony Gonzalez (13)
Victor Riley (27)
John Tait (14)
Sylvester Morris (21)
Ryan Sims (6)
Larry Johnson (27)

13 first round picks
Average 1st round draft position: 19th
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Old 03-12-2005, 11:57 PM   #11
KCinNY KCinNY is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SideWinder
Amnorix tells us it's a 50% failure rate, but even if you include Tait, Carl's failure rate is 66%.
As bad as Carl's done in the 1st round, he's been utterly hopeless in the 2nd round. In 15 years, Grunhard and Tongue...that's it.

A 2nd rounder for Surtain is a no-brainer, IMO.
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Old 03-12-2005, 11:57 PM   #12
BIG_DADDY BIG_DADDY is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tk13
Here's all of Carl's 1st rounders.

Derrick Thomas (4)
Percy Snow (13)
Harvey Williams (21)
Dale Carter (20)
Greg Hill (25)
Trezelle Jenkins (31)
Jerome Woods (28)
Tony Gonzalez (13)
Victor Riley (27)
John Tait (14)
Sylvester Morris (21)
Ryan Sims (6)
Larry Johnson (27)

13 first round picks
Average 1st round draft position: 19th
Sure wish Sims had done better. I would have never guessed he would be such a bust. Oh well, maybe we can get one good season out of him it IS a contract year.
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Old 03-12-2005, 11:57 PM   #13
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tk13
Here's all of Carl's 1st rounders. Numerical position of the pick in parentheses.

Derrick Thomas (4)
Percy Snow (13)
Harvey Williams (21)
Dale Carter (20)
Greg Hill (25)
Trezelle Jenkins (31)
Jerome Woods (28)
Tony Gonzalez (13)
Victor Riley (27)
John Tait (14)
Sylvester Morris (21)
Ryan Sims (6)
Larry Johnson (27)

13 first round picks
Average 1st round draft position: 19th
see the only "real" bust was Jenkins.......Snow and SlyMo u cant consider busts. Just unfortunate....
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Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning:

Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down.

One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
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Old 03-13-2005, 12:02 AM   #14
Deberg_1990 Deberg_1990 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UMKC 1L
As bad as Carl's done in the 1st round, he's been utterly hopeless in the 2nd round. In 15 years, Grunhard and Tongue...that's it.

A 2nd rounder for Surtain is a no-brainer, IMO.
exactly..trade the pick for an already proven vet and pro-bowler?? who is still fairly young? I would have made that trade like a week ago.
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Originally Posted by Cassel's Reckoning:

Matt once made a very nice play in Seattle where he spun away from a pass rusher and hit Bowe off his back foot for a first down.

One of the best plays Matt has ever made.
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Old 03-13-2005, 12:05 AM   #15
milkman milkman is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deberg_1990
see the only "real" bust was Jenkins.......Snow and SlyMo u cant consider busts. Just unfortunate....
And the only real studs are DT and Tony.

LJ looks like he might be, and I still hold out hope for Sims.

But the point is, given Carl's record, I wouldn't be expectingt that stud that all of these people are hoping for.
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