Liberals on the board: Why is this guy wrong?

[Bo's Pelini]

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by Xanathol

These arguments always come down to 'who should pay for xyz', but the question really should be, 'why should all of us pay for xyz just because you want to pay for xyz?' If you want to contribute your money for social services, go right ahead - but leave mine alone.

Because it would be ****ed up not to. Kids deserve to eat, get healthcare, have a place to live, etc. You want to live here, you pitch in. Frankly, the places that don't do such things--you probably really wouldn't want to live there.

[nstygma]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Because it would be ****ed up not to. Kids deserve to eat, get healthcare, have a place to live, etc. You want to live here, you pitch in. Frankly, the places that don't do such things--you probably really wouldn't want to live there.

whose job is it to instill discipline?

[Chiefspants]

Originally Posted by Bo's Pelini

Charity.

Lol.

[Bo's Pelini]

Originally Posted by Direckshun

Thoughts on post #4?

Seems like suffering would guide people towards trying to be productive the difference between here and pick a shitty country is people here have opportunity. I find it laughable delusional thinkers such as J Diddy and that other troll with anti-Romney shit in his profile think opportunity comes from government food stamps and that those kinds of handouts are enough to take care of people.

[Xanathol]

Originally Posted by cosmo20002

Because it would be ****ed up not to. Kids deserve to eat, get healthcare, have a place to live, etc. You want to live here, you pitch in. Frankly, the places that don't do such things--you probably really wouldn't want to live there.

You are more than free to give all of your money to whatever cause you want - you are not, however, free to give my money to your causes.

Let's be honest about this - you're harping on a 'feed the children' campaign but the reality isn't that children are homeless & hungry, or that all of us are paying for them. The truth in America today is that some of us ( those who work ) are paying for a shit ton of those that don't work - not because they are poor, forgotten children, but because they are lazy / dumb / on drugs / whatever and find it easier to vote themselves other people's money than to get off their ass and make their own. You're trying to paint a picture that isn't there to make your point that doesn't exist.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by Chiefspants

The wisdom of this post will be wasted on delusional douchebags on the "self-reliance" lunatic fringe.

Their retarded redneck response is ususally something like, "Well, I ain't signed no damn contract!" Well, it's implied via citizenship. Dimwit.

If you'd prefer a one-way ticket to Afghanistan or Somalia...don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. See ya!

[listopencil]

Originally Posted by Xanathol

You are more than free to give all of your money to whatever cause you want - you are not, however, free to give my money to your causes.

Let's be honest about this - you're harping on a 'feed the children' campaign but the reality isn't that children are homeless & hungry, or that all of us are paying for them. The truth in America today is that some of us ( those who work ) are paying for a shit ton of those that don't work - not because they are poor, forgotten children, but because they are lazy / dumb / on drugs / whatever and find it easier to vote themselves other people's money than to get off their ass and make their own. You're trying to paint a picture that isn't there to make your point that doesn't exist.

So...you don't believe that there are homeless or hungry children in this country?

[JonesCrusher]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

The wisdom of this post will be wasted on delusional douchebags on the "self-reliance" lunatic fringe.

Their retarded redneck response is ususally something like, "Well, I ain't signed no damn contract!" Well, it's implied via citizenship. Dimwit.

If you'd prefer a one-way ticket to Afghanistan or Somalia...don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. See ya!

The problem most have with the Warren quote is that it implies that businesses currently pay nothing and it is time to start fulfilling their social contract. What should have been said is thank you for the roads we drive on but we kinda blew a shitload of money on waste and fraud and if we are going to keep this bottomless bucket of money mentality we will need a few more dollars please.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by JonesCrusher

The problem most have with the Warren quote is that it implies that businesses currently pay nothing and it is time to start fulfilling their social contract....

It implies nothing of the sort; businesses certainly do NOT pay for all that they benefit from--and nothing close to it. Sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, and others....disproportionately paid by poor, working, and middle class citizens pay for much of those costs.

Asking those who benefit, disproportionately, to pay in a progressive fashion...has been the reasonable law of the land since the early 20th century. Only the precise degree of progressivity was questioned. During the last thirty years, plutocrats have bought politicians (the nonstop rhetoric of never-ending tax cuts) and coerced a reversal of those principles that built our great nation--a reversal that, now, threatens that same nation's future.

[JonesCrusher]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

It implies nothing of the sort; businesses certainly do NOT pay for all that they benefit from--and nothing close to it. Sales taxes, property taxes, excise taxes, and others....disproportionately paid by poor, working, and middle class citizens pay for much of those costs.

Asking those who benefit, disproportionately, to pay in a progressive fashion...has been the reasonable law of the land since the early 20th century. Only the precise degree of progressivity was questioned. During the last thirty years, have plutocrats bought politicians (the nonstop rhetoric of never-ending tax cuts) and coerced a reversal of those principles that built our great nation--a reversal that, now threatens that same nation's future.

Agreed, the poor and middle class do make a lot of money, by all means keep a big hunk of it, but part of their underlying social contract is to pay it forward.

[Mr. Kotter]

Originally Posted by JonesCrusher

Agreed, the poor and middle class do make a lot of money, by all means keep a big hunk of it, but part of their underlying social contract is to pay it forward.

And statistics on TOTAL tax burden (not the disingenuous GOP demagoguery of focusing on only federal income taxes--the "47%") indicate that, they indeed do...inf fact, they pay a higher per cent of their total income in a variety of taxes than the upper 5% do. But, of course, that doesn't serve the class warfare rhetoric of the plutocrats and dittoheads.

[JonesCrusher]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

And statistics on TOTAL tax burden (not the disingenuous GOP demagoguery of focusing on only federal income taxes--the "47%") indicate that, they indeed do...inf fact, they pay a higher per cent of their total income in a variety of taxes than the upper 5% do. But, of course, that doesn't serve the class warfare rhetoric of the plutocrats and dittoheads.

Okay, I never said they didn't. I, like Warren, was just making a vague comment designed to fuel class warfare.

[2bikemike]

Originally Posted by J Diddy

For starters, who is going to build the roads we drive on?

Another Business with money provided by the earnings from taxes which are paid by other Businesses and the employees of other businesses.

[cosmo20002]

Originally Posted by Xanathol

You are more than free to give all of your money to whatever cause you want - you are not, however, free to give my money to your causes.

Let's be honest about this - you're harping on a 'feed the children' campaign but the reality isn't that children are homeless & hungry, or that all of us are paying for them. The truth in America today is that some of us ( those who work ) are paying for a shit ton of those that don't work - not because they are poor, forgotten children, but because they are lazy / dumb / on drugs / whatever and find it easier to vote themselves other people's money than to get off their ass and make their own. You're trying to paint a picture that isn't there to make your point that doesn't exist.

So, you appear to be saying that there aren't children in need of housing, food, etc. And you're complaining about having to pay into a social welfare system. I think you are proving my point.

[Bo's Pelini]

Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter

The wisdom of this post will be wasted on delusional douchebags on the "self-reliance" lunatic fringe.

Their retarded redneck response is ususally something like, "Well, I ain't signed no damn contract!" Well, it's implied via citizenship. Dimwit.

If you'd prefer a one-way ticket to Afghanistan or Somalia...don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. See ya!

Irony.