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Old 11-24-2012, 04:48 AM  
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Notice how many gods you reject.

Proof #28 - Notice how many gods you reject

There are literally thousands of religions being practiced today. Here are 20 of the most popular, along with an estimate of the number of followers:

Christianity: 2.1 billion
Islam: 1.3 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand

[Source: Encyclopedia Britannica]

If you believe in God, you have chosen to reject Allah, Vishnu, Budda, Waheguru and all of the thousands of other gods that other people worship today. It is quite likely that you rejected these other gods without ever looking into their religions or reading their books. You simply absorbed the dominant faith in your home or in the society you grew up in.

In the same way, the followers of all these other religions have chosen to reject God. You think their gods are imaginary, and they think your God is imaginary.

In other words, each religious person on earth today arbitrarily rejects thousands of gods as imaginary, many of which he/she has never even heard of, and arbitrarily chooses to "believe" in one of them.

The following quote from Stephen F. Roberts sums up the situation very nicely:

Quote:
"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."

A rational person rejects all human gods equally, because all of them are equally imaginary.

How do we know that they are imaginary? Simply imagine that one of them is real.

If one of these thousands of gods were actually real, then his followers would be experiencing real, undeniable benefits. These benefits would be obvious to everyone. The followers of a true god would pray, and their prayers would be answered. The followers of a true god would therefore live longer, have fewer diseases, have lots more money, etc.

There would be thousands of statistical markers surrounding the followers of a true god.

Everyone would notice all of these benefits, and they would gravitate toward this true god. And thus, over the course of several centuries, everyone would be aligned on the one true god. All the other false gods would have fallen by the wayside long ago, and there would be only one religion under the one true god.

When we look at our world today, we see nothing like that. There are two billion Christians AND there are more than one billion Muslims, and their religions are mutually exclusive. There are thousands of other religions. When you analyze any of them, they all show a remarkable similarity -- there is zero evidence that any of these gods exist.
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:54 PM   #316
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post


That letter to the Dansbury Baptists has as much bearing on the the intent of the Constitution as your earlier wiki quote has on the Quaran. Nada.

but hey, keep beating that drum.
Umm.....yeah. I'll go ahead and go with Thomas Jefferson's interpretation of the Constitution over yours. He was alive at the time and had a personal relationship with many of the people who created it. That wiki quote proves that you're wrong about Muslims as well. Dude. You're batting a big triple zero on religious takes in this thread. I don't know. Maybe you should try being Hindu?
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:56 PM   #317
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Yes I have. Yes they are loving. They know the hand that feeds them, they know if they do wrong they will be punished, but they do not possess rational thought.

Why does a dog cower when he sees your reaction to a bad thing? Because he's pondered the morality of his actions or he reads your emotions?
Nah, that's not what I mean. I've had several dogs that will go into guilty mode before I've even known what they have done.
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Old 11-27-2012, 01:14 AM   #318
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I've had several dogs that will go into guilty mode before I've even known what they have done.
When I see my border collie act all shamed & embarrassed, I go look for what the heck she did wrong. Never fails.
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Old 11-27-2012, 04:40 AM   #319
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If you believe in God, you have chosen to reject Allah?????

Allah and God are the same!! Christianity, Islam and Judaism all believe in the same God, the God of Abraham. That is over 3.5 billion in the world. The differences is that Chiristians believe that Jesus is the Son of God, Islam view God through Mohammed and see Jesus as a prophet and Judaism just see Jesus as a prophet. I don't reject other gods, I just only believe in one.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:15 AM   #320
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Umm.....yeah. I'll go ahead and go with Thomas Jefferson's interpretation of the Constitution over yours. He was alive at the time and had a personal relationship with many of the people who created it. That wiki quote proves that you're wrong about Muslims as well. Dude. You're batting a big triple zero on religious takes in this thread. I don't know. Maybe you should try being Hindu?
you've got nothing...other than a letter comfroting baptists that the government would not endorse a SPECIFIC DENOMINATION. Period.

.....show me in the koran where muslims see allah as their father, and they as his children...all you posted was a personal opinion.

being hindu? telling perspective... maybe you should try Jesus..
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:19 AM   #321
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Originally Posted by craneref View Post
If you believe in God, you have chosen to reject Allah?????

Allah and God are the same!! Christianity, Islam and Judaism all believe in the same God, the God of Abraham. That is over 3.5 billion in the world. The differences is that Chiristians believe that Jesus is the Son of God, Islam view God through Mohammed and see Jesus as a prophet and Judaism just see Jesus as a prophet. I don't reject other gods, I just only believe in one.
"the differences is"

...."view" God "through" mohammed. "see" Jesus as a prophet
.....just "see" Jesus as a prophet
...Jesus IS the Son of God.

proof is in the pudding.
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Old 11-27-2012, 07:50 AM   #322
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
you've got nothing...other than a letter comfroting baptists that the government would not endorse a SPECIFIC DENOMINATION. Period.

.....show me in the koran where muslims see allah as their father, and they as his children...all you posted was a personal opinion.

being hindu? telling perspective... maybe you should try Jesus..
1) Wrong. I have an amedment. Not my fault if you can't read it.
2) Once again I will take the opinion of a scholar over yours. Quote the passage in the Quran that supports your belief.
3) I don't care for your personal Jesus. Too much bigotry.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:08 AM   #323
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
muslims do not believe in a personal relationship with God, to claim so would be as dangerous as what Christ procliamed.
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.....show me in the koran where muslims see allah as their father, and they as his children...all you posted was a personal opinion.
The Islamic view of God is that there is a special relationship God has with humans (unlike, say, deism), and that God is compassionate and loving towards them (unlike, say, Greek and Roman polytheism).

From the Koran:

[2:187] And when My servants ask thee about Me, say: ‘I am near. I answer the prayer of the supplicant when he prays to Me. So they should hearken to Me and believe in Me, that they may follow the right way.’

[50:17] And assuredly, We have created man and We know what his physical self whispers to him, and We are nearer to him than even his jugular vein. [Speaking of God and Guardian Angels]

[34:51] Say, ‘ If I err, I err only against myself; and if I am rightly guided, it is because of what my Lord has revealed to me. Verily, He is All-Hearing, Nigh.’

[57:5] He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six periods, then He settled Himself on the Throne. He knows what enters the earth and what comes out of it, and what comes down from heaven and what goes up into it. And He is with you wheresoever you may be. And Allah sees all that you do.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:08 AM   #324
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listopencil,
I think the problem on this issue is that the final Constitution was the work of many, even per Madison, who did not all agree but compromised in the end. Not every Framer agreed where the line would be drawn on this, obviously by the actions of many of them that would become president. Jefferson was probably one of the more agnostic and strict as to where that line should be drawn. That's all the Danbury letter shows is Jefferson's line.
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Old 11-27-2012, 08:15 AM   #325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
"the differences is"

...."view" God "through" mohammed. "see" Jesus as a prophet
.....just "see" Jesus as a prophet
...Jesus IS the Son of God.

proof is in the pudding.
"proof"
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:08 AM   #326
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If'n you noticed he was not debating my point. He was saying how it supported his. But nice projection here since you just showed how unsharp you were being to understand it. Not to mention your typical use of the same logical fallacy you rely on. This is a sign of intellectual bankruptcy.
When you can no longer refute, you resort to this logical fallacies. You got nothing and have ceded the argument. Thank you for proving this point about atheists again.
There is absolutely nothing false in my post. I can pull up the threads if you wish or would you rather I save you the fake ignoring? As far as siding with a poster that supports Obama lol That is more silliness from you. I like several posters who support Obama here. You have called me a Neo Con, atheist, and now I guess I am a liberal~
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:17 AM   #327
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I wasn't talking to you.
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:29 AM   #328
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Yup more logical fallacies by a real redneck. You've even stooped allying with an Obama-bot too.
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I wasn't talking to you.
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider
She is a odd duck. I took exception to a misleading post from her regarding Jewish leaders meeting with Iranian leadership. Knowing her history as a Iran apologist it angered me. I have since realized I was giving her too much credit to think she was being disingenuous. It was a wacko fringe group and an absolute insult to the Jewish community to pretend those shitbags represent the Jewish community. She however was convinced this was worthy of posting not realizing it occurred in 2007 and has been widely mocked and dismissed. She clearly thought it was recent. Much like her stolen election thread from the other day. She is the perfect target for people like Glenn Beck~
Yup more logical fallacies by a real redneck. You've even stooped allying with an Obama-bot too.

Why would you directly quote me if you were not talking to me
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:32 AM   #329
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Did you say something?
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Old 11-27-2012, 09:37 AM   #330
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Originally Posted by stevieray View Post
you've got nothing...other than a letter comfroting baptists that the government would not endorse a SPECIFIC DENOMINATION. Period.

.....show me in the koran where muslims see allah as their father, and they as his children...all you posted was a personal opinion.

being hindu? telling perspective... maybe you should try Jesus..
So Madison did not understand the Constitution either?

James Madison on the subject~

Direct references to separation:

The civil Government, though bereft of everything like an associated hierarchy, possesses the requisite stability, and performs its functions with complete success, whilst the number, the industry, and the morality of the priesthood, and the devotion of the people, have been manifestly increased by the total separation of the church from the State (Letter to Robert Walsh, Mar. 2, 1819).

Strongly guarded as is the separation between religion and & Gov't in the Constitution of the United States the danger of encroachment by Ecclesiastical Bodies, may be illustrated by precedents already furnished in their short history (Detached Memoranda, circa 1820).

Every new and successful example, therefore, of a perfect separation between the ecclesiastical and civil matters, is of importance; and I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity the less they are mixed together (Letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822).

I must admit moreover that it may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency to a usurpation on one side or the other or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them will be best guarded against by entire abstinence of the government from interference in any way whatever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order and protecting each sect against trespasses on its legal rights by others. (Letter Rev. Jasper Adams, Spring 1832).

To the Baptist Churches on Neal's Greek on Black Creek, North Carolina I have received, fellow-citizens, your address, approving my objection to the Bill containing a grant of public land to the Baptist Church at Salem Meeting House, Mississippi Territory. Having always regarded the practical distinction between Religion and Civil Government as essential to the purity of both, and as guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States, I could not have otherwise discharged my duty on the occasion which presented itself (Letter to Baptist Churches in North Carolina, June 3, 1811).

Madison's summary of the First Amendment:

Congress should not establish a religion and enforce the legal observation of it by law, nor compel men to worship God in any manner contary to their conscience, or that one sect might obtain a pre-eminence, or two combined together, and establish a religion to which they would compel others to conform (Annals of Congress, Sat Aug 15th, 1789 pages 730 - 731).

Or~

Article VI which clearly states "There shall be no religious test for public office"
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