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Old 11-27-2012, 03:56 PM  
NIUhuskies NIUhuskies is offline
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Minnesota man who killed teens in break-in charged with murder

wow, this sounds pretty messed up... Cant tell if his guy is nuts or if these kids were on drugs

By NBC News staff and wire services

A 64-year-old Minnesota man was charged Monday with murder for killing two teenagers who he said broke into his Little Falls home, shooting them in the head, the Minneapolis Star Tribune reported.

AP file

Byron David Smith was arrested after he told police he shot and killed two teenagers who he said were breaking into his home on Thanksgiving Day.

"If you're trying to shoot somebody and they laugh at you, you go again," Byron David Smith of Little Falls told investigators, according to a criminal complaint filed Monday.

Smith was charged with two counts of second-degree murder in the deaths of Haile Kifer, 18, and her cousin, Nicholas Brady, 17, both of Little Falls. The teens were shot on Thanksgiving Day, but their deaths weren't reported until Friday.
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Brady has also used the name Schaeffel, which is his mother’s maiden name, at times for family reasons, according to the sheriff's office.

In the criminal complaint, Smith said he was in the basement of his remote home about 10 miles southwest of Little Falls when he heard a window breaking upstairs, followed by footsteps that eventually approached the basement stairwell. Fearful after several break-ins, according to the complaint, Smith said he fired when Brady came into view from the waist down.

After the teen fell down the stairs, Smith said he shot him in the face as he lay on the floor.

"I want him dead," the complaint quoted Smith telling an investigator.

Smith said he dragged Brady's body into his basement workshop, then sat back down on his chair, and after a few minutes Kifer began coming down the stairs. He said he shot her as soon as her hips appeared, and she fell down the steps.

Smith said he tried to shoot her again with his Mini 14 rifle, but that the gun jammed and Kifer laughed at him.

"Smith stated that it was not a very long laugh because she was already hurting," according to the complaint.

Smith said he then shot Kifer in the chest several times with a .22-caliber revolver, dragged her next to Brady, and with her still gasping for air, fired a shot under her chin "up into the cranium."

"Smith described it as 'a good clean finishing shot,'" according to the compliant, but also that he acknowledged he had fired "more shots than (he) needed to."

The following day he asked a neighbor to recommend a good lawyer, according to the complaint. He later asked his neighbor to call the police.

A prosecutor called Smith's reaction "appalling."

"Mr. Smith intentionally killed two teenagers in his home in a matter that goes well beyond self-defense," Morrison County Attorney Brian Middendorf said after Smith appeared at Morrison County District Court on Monday morning. Bail was set at $2 million.

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Minnesota law allows a homeowner to use deadly force on an intruder if a reasonable person would fear they're in danger of harm. Smith told investigators he was afraid the intruders might have a weapon.

Smith's actions "sound like an execution" rather than legitimate self-defense, said David Pecchia, executive director of the Minnesota Chiefs of Police Association. Pecchia said his statements to investigators suggest he had eliminated any threat to his safety by wounding the cousins.

Smith's brother, Bruce Smith, told the Star Tribune of Minneapolis that the incident was the eighth burglary at Byron Smith's home in recent years.

The only report the Morrison County sheriff's office has for a break-in at the home was for one on Oct. 27. It shows Byron Smith reported losing cash and gold coins worth $9,200, plus two guns worth $200 each, photo equipment worth more than $3,000 and a ring worth $300.

Little Falls is about 100 miles northwest of Minneapolis.

Brady's sister, Crystal Schaeffel, told the Star Tribune that Kifer had broken into her home before. Little Falls police records show Crystal Schaeffel reported a theft Aug. 28, but the department said the report was not public because that investigation was continuing and because it named juveniles.

Tessa Ruth, an aunt of Brady, attended Smith's hearing. She told the Star Tribune she wished the man had fired a warning shot or alerted the police instead of shooting the teens.

"It wasn't right for them to be there and, yes, he had a right to defend himself. But to execute them like that..."

http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012...th-murder?lite





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Old 02-07-2013, 08:16 AM   #151
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What if he had killed them with only one shot? So you don't agree with protecting yourself from a burglar?
That's different. If he had killed them in self defense, no problem. He didn't, though. This was an execution. His safety was not in danger when he put the gun to her head; at least it wasn't based on what I've read here.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:18 AM   #152
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Originally Posted by WV View Post
What if he had killed them with only one shot? So you don't agree with protecting yourself from a burglar?
Shooting an invader who poses a possible threat is not the same as shooting a defenseless person.

You need to accept it especially if you own a gun. If you shoot a defenseless person, you will be charged with murder. You can't 'defend' yourself from a defenseless person.

You tie them up and call police. They were wounded kids. He knew what he did.

If a guy starts a fight with me, I win, and then at the end I jump on his back and break his neck... that's murder. People don't seem to understand how self defense works... it's not just an excuse. You have to be defending yourself.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:20 AM   #153
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They got what they deserved.

In time he will as well...
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:23 AM   #154
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Everybody involved here in this one is wrong. Kids are wrong for breaking and entering. The home owner was wrong for executing two teenagers. He could have stopped them without killing them.
this.
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Old 02-07-2013, 08:26 AM   #155
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The outcome is good - two less criminals in the world - but he probably could've handled it a little better.
Likely THREE less criminals.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:01 AM   #156
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
That's different. If he had killed them in self defense, no problem. He didn't, though. This was an execution. His safety was not in danger when he put the gun to her head; at least it wasn't based on what I've read here.
You answered my first question though. I agree his execution style killing was over the top, but had he happened to kill them with his first volley I would have been fine with that being that they broke into his house.

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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Shooting an invader who poses a possible threat is not the same as shooting a defenseless person.

You need to accept it especially if you own a gun. If you shoot a defenseless person, you will be charged with murder. You can't 'defend' yourself from a defenseless person.

You tie them up and call police. They were wounded kids. He knew what he did.

If a guy starts a fight with me, I win, and then at the end I jump on his back and break his neck... that's murder. People don't seem to understand how self defense works... it's not just an excuse. You have to be defending yourself.
I think you are agreeing with me. If someone breaks into my house, they are getting a lead injection whether they are armed or not. I have no idea if they are or aren't in that moment, but again I agree he took it too far after he had them down.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:14 AM   #157
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Good edit. I was about to explain it to you.


The executions ARE over the line.
Interesting when I read the headline to the thread I was afraid I was about to read about a legitimate self defense that was getting twisted into a murder charge but that is clearly not the case here.

I would have been perfectly fine w/ shooting each of them once to eliminate any threat and then calling the police immediately.

I also understand why he would be angry if he's been victimized by multiple break ins. But the way this dude reacted and the blatant disregard for two human lives is appalling.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:20 AM   #158
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I think you are agreeing with me. If someone breaks into my house, they are getting a lead injection whether they are armed or not. I have no idea if they are or aren't in that moment, but again I agree he took it too far after he had them down.
Yes, then we are agreed.

I'm not 'gun guy', but I'm in an area where owning a gun can save your life. I own one. I will shoot for the mass. If they die, that's their problem.

However if I shoot and do not kill, I'm not gonna walk up and say "Hasta la Vista baby!" before plugging them in the head. That's just ice cold murder.

Also, in my situation I'd prefer they live if the shots didn't kill them. They ended up being a couple of stupid kids. People do dipshit stuff like this, reform, and become quality members of society. I know a guy who did shit worse than breaking and entering (without getting caught) and now 14 years later he's a very decorated Army veteran.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:40 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by WhiteWhale View Post
Then you disagree with the law.

Killing a defenseless person is murder. Always.

The whole 'defenseless' throws a wrench in the 'self defense' argument.
that's why it's best to empty the gun and not stop shooting.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:42 AM   #160
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In Florida, there is a rule called the Castle Doctrine that says there is implied intent to inflict harm when someone breaks into your home. However, the use of deadly force is only justified if the homeowner's life was in danger of imminent great bodily harm or death. Once those teenagers hit the ground the imminent danger of great bodily harm or death ended.
castle doctrine varies from state to state. in missouri, you are not required to prove shit other than they were unlawfully in your home, there is no need to prove they are a threat, and there is no flight clause which means you are not required to flee if possible before deadly force is used. hell, in MO, castle doctrine extends to vehicles and places of employment as well.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:56 AM   #161
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Originally Posted by WV View Post
You answered my first question though. I agree his execution style killing was over the top, but had he happened to kill them with his first volley I would have been fine with that being that they broke into his house.


I think you are agreeing with me. If someone breaks into my house, they are getting a lead injection whether they are armed or not. I have no idea if they are or aren't in that moment, but again I agree he took it too far after he had them down.
it sounds like one might murder someone, drag them into one's home, and claim self defense.
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Old 02-07-2013, 09:57 AM   #162
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it sounds like one might murder someone, drag them into one's home, and claim self defense.
One could do so in Mo.

Just....saying...
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Last edited by Rausch; 02-07-2013 at 10:23 AM..
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:06 AM   #163
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castle doctrine varies from state to state. in missouri, you are not required to prove shit other than they were unlawfully in your home, there is no need to prove they are a threat, and there is no flight clause which means you are not required to flee if possible before deadly force is used. hell, in MO, castle doctrine extends to vehicles and places of employment as well.
Still doesn't allow you to do what this guy did.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:21 AM   #164
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Still doesn't allow you to do what this guy did.
not saying it did. just explaining to someone that lots of states have varied versions of castle doctrine.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:24 AM   #165
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Two druggie thief teenagers are dead because they broke into a guys house who had a gun. That's it. End of story. They are dead. It doesn't matter if they would have died with the first shot or later, they are dead.

So the guy doesn't pump em full of lead, they recover, they sue his ass and everyone believes the cute little teenagers and he goes off to jail for people with no eyes. That not good either.
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