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View Poll Results: Should we allow gays the same rights as hetrosexuals?
Yes 68 72.34%
No 8 8.51%
Leave it to the states. Not a federal issue. 17 18.09%
GAZ says FU BRC, you are gay 1 1.06%
Voters: 94. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-09-2012, 09:03 AM  
BigRedChief BigRedChief is offline
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SCOTUS to take on allowing Gays to marry. What say you?

There are two cases(DOMA and Proposition 8) to be heard by the SCOTUS this session.

At the base of the question is do gay Americans have the same rights as heterosexual Americans? And if so, do they need their constitutional rights protected at the federal level.

I've never had an openly gay friend, co-worker or family member. I did coach a little league baseball team. On that team I had a player with two Mom's. The players and the parents accepted the kid of the two Mom's as any other player. The other parents let their kids go over to the two Mom's house for sleepovers etc. It wasn't a factor to consider in the slightest.

I don't have any personal experience to know what rights is actually being denied. However, I believe that for whatever reason they were born that way. It's not a choice. You can't pray it out of them. You can't give them therapy and turn them into heterosexuals. They are what they are naturally and we should just accept them.

IMHO, the government/city/state/society have no right to tell it's citizens what two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom. some of our citizens who they can and who they can't love. Who they can and can't marry. History will not be kind to the discrimination of gays, with cause. It's time to end this era of gay discrimination.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:01 PM   #226
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Originally Posted by kstater View Post
Which church do gays want to force to marry them?
Annnnnd he didn't touch this one.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:05 PM   #227
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Annnnnd he didn't touch this one.
I didn't touch it because I never said anything that suggested I thought it was happening.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:36 PM   #228
Xanathol Xanathol is offline
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No one has the 'right' to be married or to be recognized as married. Its not a civil rights issue, its a 'change the definition of a word and force others to accept it, even against their beliefs' issue. In other words, you poll is worded incorrectly, creating a slant that does not exist.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:41 PM   #229
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Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
No one has the 'right' to be married or to be recognized as married. Its not a civil rights issue, its a 'change the definition of a word and force others to accept it, even against their beliefs' issue. In other words, you poll is worded incorrectly, creating a slant that does not exist.
This is the viewpoint of a simplistic idiot. The government recognizes marriage and accords benefits to it. Gay people want the same benefits. Nobody gives a crap whether anybody gets their religious beliefs butthurt over it.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:45 PM   #230
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Originally Posted by Brock View Post
This is the viewpoint of a simplistic idiot. The government recognizes marriage and accords benefits to it. Gay people want the same benefits. Nobody gives a crap whether anybody gets their religious beliefs butthurt over it.
The government also recognizes poverty and accords benefits to it (e.g. Pell grants). I'd like to get the same benefits. Of course, I can always impoverish myself if I really want those benefits that much in the same way that gay people can marry people of the opposite sex in order to get marital benefits.
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Old 03-26-2013, 03:58 PM   #231
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Originally Posted by kstater View Post
Which church do gays want to force to marry them?
Why do you assume that all people have to be married in a church? You do realize that many weddings are performed between atheist and/or agnostic couples who are not under any organized religions. Also, there are some religions that don't look down on homosexuality.

Trust me, I've struggled with this too, because I'm a straight catholic and understand why christians would be upset with the idea of gay marriage (why they loathe civil unions or despise gay people, I think, is very unchristian). But I keep coming back to the same thought. If atheists are allowed to marry, then why don't catholics revolt against that? There are also plenty of people who have committed adultery, murdered, aborted a child, etc... who are allowed to marry.

It would be one thing if the government was forcing churches to marry gay people. But they're not.
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:02 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Then you should have the same opinion as I do on this...

As long as you are giving special treatment to straight married coupled you have to extend it to all "married" couples... today that means gays. There is no chance we will be able to get rid of marriage benefits without political upheaval... so my solution is to extend those benefits to EVERYONE. I have no problem with us starting with the gays. Next up.. polygamists!
Agree up to the polygamist point. They should be institutionalized
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:03 PM   #233
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
Why do you assume that all people have to be married in a church? You do realize that many weddings are performed between atheist and/or agnostic couples who are not under any organized religions. Also, there are some religions that don't look down on homosexuality.

Trust me, I've struggled with this too, because I'm a straight catholic and understand why christians would be upset with the idea of gay marriage (why they loathe civil unions or despise gay people, I think, is very unchristian). But I keep coming back to the same thought. If atheists are allowed to marry, then why don't catholics revolt against that? There are also plenty of people who have committed adultery, murdered, aborted a child, etc... who are allowed to marry.

It would be one thing if the government was forcing churches to marry gay people. But they're not.
Nicely done, and yes this is the crux of the issue.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:22 PM   #234
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If SCOTUS leaves it up to the states will you be fine with that then?
not likely to happen...

equal protection under the law is not subject to a vote...

the supremes will not let states make that determination, they will vote one way or the other, equal marriage rights are either constitutional or they're not...
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:35 PM   #235
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Originally Posted by nstygma View Post
allow anyone to marry anyone. allow muslims and mormons to have multiple wives, not to exceed 40. allow siblings to marry. allow people to marry inanimate objects and animals. who cares what happens behind closed doors?
now you're talkin!!!1!
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Old 03-26-2013, 04:41 PM   #236
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Originally Posted by nstygma View Post
allow anyone to marry anyone. allow muslims and mormons to have multiple wives, not to exceed 40. allow siblings to marry. allow people to marry inanimate objects and animals. who cares what happens behind closed doors?
Inanimate objects and animals can't say, "I do."
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:06 PM   #237
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
Inanimate objects and animals can't say, "I do."
Sure, but horses can say neigh.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:06 PM   #238
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The government also recognizes poverty and accords benefits to it (e.g. Pell grants). I'd like to get the same benefits. Of course, I can always impoverish myself if I really want those benefits that much in the same way that gay people can marry people of the opposite sex in order to get marital benefits.
Sure. But let's just let them marry each other instead. It's fine, it won't hurt a thing, and there's probably a lot of benefit to it.
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:14 PM   #239
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Inanimate objects and animals can't say, "I do."
sure they can, it's just telepathically transmitted to the person who loves it and nobody else...
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Old 03-26-2013, 05:20 PM   #240
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Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
No one has the 'right' to be married or to be recognized as married. Its not a civil rights issue, its a 'change the definition of a word and force others to accept it, even against their beliefs' issue. In other words, you poll is worded incorrectly, creating a slant that does not exist.
for those who say there is no right to marry:

It is well-established and crystal clear that the right to marry is a central aspect of the right to liberty, privacy, association, and identity.

Fourteen times since 1888, the United States Supreme Court has stated that marriage is a fundamental right of all individuals. In these cases, the Court has reaffirmed that “freedom of personal choice in matters of marriage” is “one of the liberties protected by the Due Process Clause,” “essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men,” and “sheltered by the Fourteenth Amendment against the State’s unwarranted usurpation, disregard, or disrespect.”

Here is a list of the fourteen cases, with links to the opinions and citations to the Court’s discussion of the right to marry.

Maynard v. Hill, 125 U.S. 190, 205, 211 (1888): Marriage is “the most important relation in life” and “the foundation of the family and society, without which there would be neither civilization nor progress.”

Meyer v. Nebraska, 262 U.S. 390, 399 (1923): The right “to marry, establish a home and bring up children” is a central part of liberty protected by the Due Process Clause.

Skinner v. Oklahoma ex rel. Williamson, 316 U.S. 535, 541 (1942): Marriage “one of the basic civil rights of man,” “fundamental to the very existence and survival of the race.”

Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479, 486 (1965): “We deal with a right of privacy older than the Bill of Rights—older than our political parties, older than our school system. Marriage is a coming together for better or for worse, hopefully enduring, and intimate to the degree of being sacred. It is an association that promotes a way of life, not causes; a harmony in living, not political faiths; a bilateral loyalty, not commercial or social projects. Yet it is an association for as noble a purpose as any involved in our prior decisions.”

Loving v. Virginia, 388 U.S. 1, 12 (1967): “The freedom to marry has long been recognized as one of the vital personal rights essential to the orderly pursuit of happiness by free men.”

Boddie v. Connecticut, 401 U.S. 371, 376, 383 (1971): “[M]arriage involves interests of basic importance to our society” and is “a fundamental human relationship.”

Cleveland Board of Education v. LaFleur, 414 U.S. 632, 639-40 (1974): “This Court has long recognized that freedom of personal choice in matters of marriage and family life is one of the liberties protected by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.”

Moore v. City of East Cleveland, 431 U.S. 494, 499 (1977) (plurality): “[W]hen the government intrudes on choices concerning family living arrangements, this Court must examine carefully the importance of the governmental interests advanced and the extent to which they are served by the challenged regulation.”

Carey v. Population Services International, 431 U.S. 678, 684-85 (1977): “[i]t is clear that among the decisions that an individual may make without unjustified government interference are personal decisions relating to marriage, procreation, contraception, family relationships, and child rearing and education.”

Zablocki v. Redhail, 434 U.S. 374, 384 (1978): “[T]he right to marry is of fundamental importance for all individuals.”

Turner v. Safley, 482 U.S. 78, 95 (1987): “[T]he decision to marry is a fundamental right” and an “expression[ ] of emotional support and public commitment.”

Planned Parenthood of Southeastern Pennsylvania v. Casey, 505 U.S. 833, 851 (1992): “These matters, involving the most intimate and personal choices a person may make in a lifetime, choices central to personal dignity and autonomy, are central to the liberty protected by the Fourteenth Amendment. At the heart of liberty is the right to define one’s own concept of existence, of meaning, of the universe, and of the mystery of human life.”

M.L.B. v. S.L.J., 519 U.S. 102, 116 (1996): “Choices about marriage, family life, and the upbringing of children are among associational rights this Court has ranked as ‘of basic importance in our society,’ rights sheltered by the Fourteenth Amendment against the State’s unwarranted usurpation, disregard, or disrespect.”

Lawrence v. Texas, 539 U.S. 558, 574 (2003): “[O]ur laws and tradition afford constitutional protection to personal decisions relating to marriage, procreation, contraception, family relationships, and education. … Persons in a homosexual relationship may seek autonomy for these purposes, just as heterosexual persons do.”
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