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Old 12-14-2012, 10:09 AM  
Tribal Warfare Tribal Warfare is offline
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Connecticut school shooting: 18 children among 27 dead

'Close to 20' dead in Connecticut school shooting, source says
Newtown, Connecticut (CNN) -- Nearly 20 people died Friday in an elementary school shooting in Newtown, Connecticut, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN.

At least 10 of the dead at Sandy Hook Elementary School were children, the source said. At a news conference Friday afternoon, state police Lt. Paul Vance would say only that there had been "several fatalities."

The school was secure, and the public was not in danger, Vance said.

"Why? Why?" one woman wailed as she walked up a wooded roadway leading from the school.

A parent who was inside the school at the time of the attack said she heard what sounded like at least 100 rounds being fired. She said she saw two school employees who had died.

'I hope my mom is ok': Tweets from the Connecticut school shooting

Hospital officials in neighboring Danbury said they were treating three people wounded in the shooting. Danbury Mayor Mark Boughton said the victims were in "very serious" condition.

The shooter is dead, a source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN's Susan Candiotti. The suspect's body is in a classroom at the school, the source said.

A law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said a male was being questioned but he is not being called a suspect.

Federal officers in tactical gear were on the scene, coordinating with local and state police. At least four ambulances remained at the school Friday afternoon.

Police have recovered two weapons from the suspect, a Glock and a Sig Sauer, the source said. It's unclear if police killed the suspect.

'It doesn't seem possible' -- parents shocked by school shooting

Police and teachers rushed students from the building as police swarmed the area shortly after the first calls came in, around 9:40 a.m. ET. Officials moved students to a nearby firehouse, where parents frantically sought information about their children.

Third-grader Alexis Wasik said police and teachers barged into her classroom and told students to hide in the corner.

"Everybody was crying," she said. "And I just heard the police officers yelling."

Aerial images from CNN affiliate News 12 New Jersey showed police officers armed with rifles following a dog into woods near the school.

Other officers, some in tactical gear, stood around the school with guns drawn, CNN affiliate WFSB reported.

All schools in the city were on lockdown Friday as police assessed the situation, Vance said.

Gov. Dan Malloy is "horrified" by what happened, a spokesman said.

White House spokesman Jay Carney said the Obama administration feels "enormous sympathy" for affected families and pledged federal support for state and local law enforcement.

Newtown is about 60 miles north of New York.

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Originally Posted by DaFace View Post
This thread is not a place for discussion about gun control. There's a thread for that here:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=261606

People who can't understand that will be banned from this thread.

Last edited by DaFace; 12-14-2012 at 12:35 PM..
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:46 AM   #1171
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:56 AM   #1172
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Originally Posted by scott free View Post
Who was the camo clad man brought out from the woods behind the school, and whats the official story on him.

Thats a fair question.
During the press conference I saw yesterday, the sheriff said anyone taken into custody during the sweep had been released. I believe he mentioned one person was out gathering firewood.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:23 AM   #1173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teedubya View Post

The guy who shot up the theater in Colorado and this Sandy Hook guy, both of them had both parents that are/were successful... so these shooters aren't down-on-their-luck people. It's so peculiar.
Excellent observation.


A poor kid will have a hell of a lot more resilience and mental toughness due to living the hard life.

Successful people tend to put more time into their careers, thus less time with their kids (depending on the field).
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Old 12-16-2012, 08:46 AM   #1174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notorious View Post
Excellent observation.


A poor kid will have a hell of a lot more resilience and mental toughness due to living the hard life.

Successful people tend to put more time into their careers, thus less time with their kids (depending on the field).
Not only that, the pressures on the kids to succeed is enormous. Often times the parents expectations are not in line with the child's actual capabilities.

I believe the kid from Virginia Tech was also from a well off family. Which was unusual that the young man was Asian. I think an interesting sociological phenomenon is that it's rarely anyone other than younger white men and rarely ever women.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:09 AM   #1175
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I put this together primarily for my friends and family on Facebook, but I figured I'd re-post it here just for fun.

I know that statistics aren't very comforting when you hear about the horrific events of this week, but with my News Feed being inundated by all sorts of theories on how to "fix" the problem in our country, I felt compelled to compile this chart just for context.



In a nutshell, every crime rate you can think of has declined dramatically in the past 20 years (and the trend actually started even before that). We have this perception that the world is becoming more and more evil because we see and hear every little nuance about events like this, but we're missing the forest through the trees. As a society, we are much SAFER today than we've been in most of our lifetimes.

I'm not saying we shouldn't consider ways to continue improving, and I fully acknowledge that it's scary as hell to think about "what if this happened to me." But the fact of the matter is, it probably won't. Hug your kids and tell them you love them, then tell them to get the hell out of the house and go play with their friends. They'll be fine.

Oh, and for the record, Morgan Freeman didn't say that quote, and the quote from Darrell Scott is over a decade old, is grossly misrepresented, and has been fodder for email forwarding ever since email forwarding was cool.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:14 AM   #1176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaFace View Post

Oh, and for the record, Morgan Freeman didn't say that quote, and the quote from Darrell Scott is over a decade old, is grossly misrepresented, and has been fodder for email forwarding ever since email forwarding was cool.
Damnit, hardly anything is truthful on the internet anymore.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:16 AM   #1177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by teedubya View Post
These are just SOME of the questions, that I'm curious about...

1. Why did the Mother have all of those weapons? Were they registered? Why were they not locked safely away?

2. What mental diagnoses has suspect, Adam Lanza been given throughout his lifetime, especially during his adult lifetime (the past two years)?

3. What prescription pharmaceuticals was Adam Lanza taking as of December 14, 2012? What prescription pharmaceuticals was Adam Lanza prescribed throughout his lifetime?

4. Who was Adam Lanza's primary care physician? Psychiatrist? Psychologist?

5. Why was the AR-15 reported on Dec 14th to have been recovered from the suspect's vehicle, and the next day, Dec 15th, the CT State Medical Examiner declares that all 26 victims inside the school received more than one wound from a rifle, at point blank range?

6. Is there any closed circuit videotape recordings from inside and/or outside the school from the morning of December 14, 2012?

7. What is the status of the man who was wearing a dark colored jacket with camouflage pants, who was handcuffed and placed into a police cruiser, after being spotted in the woods outside the school. He actually shouted to parents, "It wasn't me." Who was he and what was he doing there?

8. Why were there such persistent reports that Mrs. Lanza was a kindergarten teacher, and that she died at the school, when now I've heard that she was not connected to the school and was killed at home?

9. Why would parents be satisfied with (possibly photoshopped) pictures of their children? Wouldn't they demand to see their children one last time firsthand?

10. Why did the police say on Friday that they were going to leave the bodies rotting in the school until Sunday, then Saturday morning announce that they had spirited the bodies away in the middle of the night?

11. What happened to the report that Adam Lanza's girlfriend and another friend were missing in New Jersey?

12. The New York Times reported that Principal Dawn Hochsprung buzzed Lanza into the school - bypassing the newly-installed security system - recognizing him as the son of Nancy Lanza. She recognized him even though he was wearing body armor and a face mask? And if true, at what point did the Adam Lanza don the mask that he was wearing when found dead? Where did the NYT get this information?

--- To me, this thing has more questions than answers... and considering the killer is dead, I doubt we get any answers. Only more questions. There is definitely enough here to scratch your head about.

Great questions. But I don't think many of us can mentally handle all of the answers. Like #6. I am sure there are cameras, most schools have them. The video should never been seen publicly. Only as training for those that do it.

I have been trying to find ways to 'get away' from it. Less watching of the news-more of Velocity. Even the game today will help. A little denial goes a long way. It was a tough to leave my kid at school-where I teach- for an event and not worry.

Hug the loved ones.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:30 AM   #1178
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Damn. Bob Schieffer is doing what he does, coordinating the field reporters on Face the Nation, and he's crying. This is a guy who's seen a lot of ****ed up shit for a lot of years, and now this.
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Old 12-16-2012, 09:54 AM   #1179
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I think we are starting to discover at least part of the why.

According to the Govenor on the Sunday shows......... The mom volunteered at Shaddy Hook as a teachers aide during the time her son was a student at Shaddy hook. She and her family were so pissed off at the school district that her son was not getting the mental help he needed that she pulled him out of school and home schooled him.

That info is too coincidental to not be a factor.
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If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:00 AM   #1180
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I think we are starting to discover at least part of the why.

According to the Govenor on the Sunday shows......... The mom volunteered at Shaddy Hook as a teachers aide during the time her son was a student at Shaddy hook. She and her family were so pissed off at the school district that her son was not getting the mental help he needed that she pulled him out of school and home schooled him.

That info is too coincidental to not be a factor.
that would do it. still don't know why he shot her though.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:02 AM   #1181
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Per CNN


"He penetrated the building by literally shooting an entrance into the building. That's what an assault weapon can do for you," Gov. Dan Malloy told CNN's Candy Crowley.

Say goodbye to your rifles.

This is the lead story everywhere and even on the NFL pre game show. Quit making these monsters famous. **** that piece of shit who did this.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:06 AM   #1182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TribalElder View Post
Per CNN


"He penetrated the building by literally shooting an entrance into the building. That's what an assault weapon can do for you," Gov. Dan Malloy told CNN's Candy Crowley.

Say goodbye to your rifles.

This is the lead story everywhere and even on the NFL pre game show. Quit making these monsters famous. **** that piece of shit who did this.
the gun control discussion of this part of the tragedy is taking place in the DC forum.

But your point is BS. You can break a window with many objects.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bufkin View Post
If it's effective, who are you, me, or anybody else to call it abuse? I worked with a guy back in Moberly who would shove a finger up his son's ass each time he had anything worse than a C on his report card. If he came home with 2 D's and an F, that's 3 fingers (and this was a big dude). Does that sound hideous and disgusting? Absolutely. Did the kid ever get anything worse than a C after this rule was implemented? Not a chance.

I'm not saying it's morally right or wrong, but does it make the child because of it? Think about that for a second.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:08 AM   #1183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
the gun control discussion of this part of the tragedy is taking place in the DC forum.

But your point is BS. You can break a window with many objects.
I agree with you. A window can be broken with rocks or pipes or anything. CNN posted that quote from the Gov.
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Old 12-16-2012, 10:21 AM   #1184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I think we are starting to discover at least part of the why.

According to the Govenor on the Sunday shows......... The mom volunteered at Shaddy Hook as a teachers aide during the time her son was a student at Shaddy hook. She and her family were so pissed off at the school district that her son was not getting the mental help he needed that she pulled him out of school and home schooled him.

That info is too coincidental to not be a factor.
Yea, it's gonna come out that Mom was some sort of survivalist gun nut who's had a beef with the school for years.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:04 PM   #1185
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I got this off of Reaper's Facebook page but it's a great article by someone who's going through the hell of trying to raise a mentally ill child. If you care, read it. Think about it.

Quote:
I Am Adam Lanza’s Mother
Liza Long
Three days before 20 year-old Adam Lanza killed his mother, then opened fire on a classroom full of Connecticut kindergartners, my 13-year old son Michael (name changed) missed his bus because he was wearing the wrong color pants.

"I can wear these pants," he said, his tone increasingly belligerent, the black-hole pupils of his eyes swallowing the blue irises.

"They are navy blue," I told him. "Your school's dress code says black or khaki pants only."

"They told me I could wear these," he insisted. "You're a stupid bitch. I can wear whatever pants I want to. This is America. I have rights!"

"You can't wear whatever pants you want to," I said, my tone affable, reasonable. "And you definitely cannot call me a stupid bitch. You're grounded from electronics for the rest of the day. Now get in the car, and I will take you to school."

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.
A few weeks ago, Michael pulled a knife and threatened to kill me and then himself after I asked him to return his overdue library books. His 7 and 9 year old siblings knew the safety plan-they ran to the car and locked the doors before I even asked them to. I managed to get the knife from Michael, then methodically collected all the sharp objects in the house into a single Tupperware container that now travels with me. Through it all, he continued to scream insults at me and threaten to kill or hurt me.

That conflict ended with three burly police officers and a paramedic wrestling my son onto a gurney for an expensive ambulance ride to the local emergency room. The mental hospital didn't have any beds that day, and Michael calmed down nicely in the ER, so they sent us home with a prescription for Zyprexa and a follow-up visit with a local pediatric psychiatrist.

We still don't know what's wrong with Michael. Autism spectrum, ADHD, Oppositional Defiant or Intermittent Explosive Disorder have all been tossed around at various meetings with probation officers and social workers and counselors and teachers and school administrators. He's been on a slew of antipsychotic and mood altering pharmaceuticals, a Russian novel of behavioral plans. Nothing seems to work.

At the start of seventh grade, Michael was accepted to an accelerated program for highly gifted math and science students. His IQ is off the charts. When he's in a good mood, he will gladly bend your ear on subjects ranging from Greek mythology to the differences between Einsteinian and Newtonian physics to Doctor Who. He's in a good mood most of the time. But when he's not, watch out. And it's impossible to predict what will set him off.

Several weeks into his new junior high school, Michael began exhibiting increasingly odd and threatening behaviors at school. We decided to transfer him to the district's most restrictive behavioral program, a contained school environment where children who can't function in normal classrooms can access their right to free public babysitting from 7:30-1:50 Monday through Friday until they turn 18.

The morning of the pants incident, Michael continued to argue with me on the drive. He would occasionally apologize and seem remorseful. Right before we turned into his school parking lot, he said, "Look, Mom, I'm really sorry. Can I have video games back today?"

"No way," I told him. "You cannot act the way you acted this morning and think you can get your electronic privileges back that quickly."

His face turned cold, and his eyes were full of calculated rage. "Then I'm going to kill myself," he said. "I'm going to jump out of this car right now and kill myself."

That was it. After the knife incident, I told him that if he ever said those words again, I would take him straight to the mental hospital, no ifs, ands, or buts. I did not respond, except to pull the car into the opposite lane, turning left instead of right.

"Where are you taking me?" he said, suddenly worried. "Where are we going?"

"You know where we are going," I replied.

"No! You can't do that to me! You're sending me to hell! You're sending me straight to hell!"

I pulled up in front of the hospital, frantically waiving for one of the clinicians who happened to be standing outside. "Call the police," I said. "Hurry."

Michael was in a full-blown fit by then, screaming and hitting. I hugged him close so he couldn't escape from the car. He bit me several times and repeatedly jabbed his elbows into my rib cage. I'm still stronger than he is, but I won't be for much longer.

The police came quickly and carried my son screaming and kicking into the bowels of the hospital. I started to shake, and tears filled my eyes as I filled out the paperwork-"Were there any difficulties with… at what age did your child… were there any problems with.. has your child ever experienced.. does your child have…"

At least we have health insurance now. I recently accepted a position with a local college, giving up my freelance career because when you have a kid like this, you need benefits. You'll do anything for benefits. No individual insurance plan will cover this kind of thing.

For days, my son insisted that I was lying-that I made the whole thing up so that I could get rid of him. The first day, when I called to check up on him, he said, "I hate you. And I'm going to get my revenge as soon as I get out of here."

By day three, he was my calm, sweet boy again, all apologies and promises to get better. I've heard those promises for years. I don't believe them anymore.

On the intake form, under the question, "What are your expectations for treatment?" I wrote, "I need help."

And I do. This problem is too big for me to handle on my own. Sometimes there are no good options. So you just pray for grace and trust that in hindsight, it will all make sense.

I am sharing this story because I am Adam Lanza's mother. I am Dylan Klebold's and Eric Harris's mother. I am Jason Holmes's mother. I am Jared Loughner's mother. I am Seung-Hui Cho's mother. And these boys-and their mothers-need help. In the wake of another horrific national tragedy, it's easy to talk about guns. But it's time to talk about mental illness.

According to Mother Jones, since 1982, 61 mass murders involving firearms have occurred throughout the country. Of these, 43 of the killers were white males, and only one was a woman. Mother Jones focused on whether the killers obtained their guns legally (most did). But this highly visible sign of mental illness should lead us to consider how many people in the U.S. live in fear, like I do.

When I asked my son's social worker about my options, he said that the only thing I could do was to get Michael charged with a crime. "If he's back in the system, they'll create a paper trail," he said. "That's the only way you're ever going to get anything done. No one will pay attention to you unless you've got charges."

I don't believe my son belongs in jail. The chaotic environment exacerbates Michael's sensitivity to sensory stimuli and doesn't deal with the underlying pathology. But it seems like the United States is using prison as the solution of choice for mentally ill people. According to Human Rights Watch, the number of mentally ill inmates in U.S. prisons quadrupled from 2000 to 2006, and it continues to rise-in fact, the rate of inmate mental illness is five times greater (56 percent) than in the non-incarcerated population.

With state-run treatment centers and hospitals shuttered, prison is now the last resort for the mentally ill-Rikers Island, the LA County Jail and Cook County Jail in Illinois housed the nation's largest treatment centers in 2011.

No one wants to send a 13-year old genius who loves Harry Potter and his snuggle animal collection to jail. But our society, with its stigma on mental illness and its broken healthcare system, does not provide us with other options. Then another tortured soul shoots up a fast food restaurant. A mall. A kindergarten classroom. And we wring our hands and say, "Something must be done."

I agree that something must be done. It's time for a meaningful, nation-wide conversation about mental health. That's the only way our nation can ever truly heal.

God help me. God help Michael. God help us all.
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