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Old 12-14-2012, 01:26 PM  
jAZ jAZ is offline
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Mental Illness

Some of you may know that I was personally fairly close to Gabby Giffords. I also have a son sitting in a kindergarten class right now. I'm also known as an outspoken liberal on this board.

I have opinions about gun control policies, but I don't see that as the critical issue that links these issues. I agree that guns don't kill people, people kill people.

We as a nation need to have a grown up discussion about our culture. But I think we are missing the issue if we talk about gun control.

We need to talk about these incidents as a function of all sorts of factors, key of which are mental health.

A couple of years ago, I think my son was 3 years old and we were at a video arcade, he wanted to play one of the gun games. Something clicked for me when he asked about that.

I realized that we have created a culture of murder and killing as a form of entertainment. I realized that somehow we as a society have embraced murder as a game or entertainment. And for some reason, rape sits squrely on the other side of the line of acceptability.

We don't make movies or video games that glorify rape. That crosses a universally unacceptable like that somehow murder doesn't cross.

When I realized this contradiction in our social make up, I made a choice that I was not going to allow my son to engage in games that treat violence as a game. I started to teaching him that guns are dangerous machines should be treated with extraordinary care. And that they can but used in a lot of ways including for violence. That they aren't toys. We agreed that he wouldn't play video games that treat killing as a game. But in return, when he is old enough, we would go learn how to operate a gun and that he'd get to experience shooting a gun in a responsible way.

I say all of this because I think there is a 3rd way to have this discussion. We can protect gun rights. We can talk about our culture. We need to discuss the role of mental illness in these incidents.

It doesn't have to be a dumbed down discussion where one side focuses exclusively on banning guns and the other side focuses on expanding access to guns.

This is a multidimensional issue that demands a grown up discussion.

I guess this is my opportunity to share my thoughts in hope that it's a contribution to that effort.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:17 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by mcan View Post
PC is about non offensive language. What you're talking about is shooting people in the village square. How can you propose such an idea and in the same breath call yourself one of the sane, rational ones? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you... We already have a death penalty for the worst of us, and this dude would have certainly been a deserving candidate. What more are you proposing we do?
I don't think he's advocating a mass genocide without cause. I think he's saying we should lock them away before they get the chance to have cause.
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Old 12-15-2012, 11:31 PM   #62
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I'm a believer that most of these types of people show signs of this well before they actually take action.


As a society who wants to truly make itself out to be what we do, we absolutely have to start listening and not go into denial or just avoid it.

Mental illness is the epidemic here. We've got to implement some changes as we move forward.
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Old 12-16-2012, 12:43 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by BIG_DADDY View Post
There is a good take. Some things should be self-evident like the shooters obviously ****ed up mental state. Others should be considered as well like what psychotropics were being prescribed for what conditions for all of these shooters and how do people on these psychotropics access their weapons. You ask me people on psychotropics shoud not have access to guns, period.
They'll find another way to kill:

•Thirteen-year-old Mathew Miller hung himself in his bedroom closet after taking Zoloft for 6 days.

•Fifteen-year-old Jarred Viktor stabbed his grandmother 61 times after 5 days on Paxil.

• Jeff Franklin (Prozac and Ritalin), Huntsville, AL, killed his parents as they came home from work using a sledge hammer, hatchet, butcher knife and mechanic's file, then attacked his younger brothers and sister.

• A young man in Huntsville, Alabama (Ritalin) went psychotic chopping up his parents with an ax and also killing one sibling and almost murdering another. [ Don't know if Ritalin is a psychotropic though.]

• Billy Willkomm, an accomplished wrestler and a University of Florida student, was prescribed Prozac at the age of 17. His family found him dead of suicide – hanging from a tall ladder at the family's Gulf Shore Boulevard home in July 2002.

• Julie Woodward, age 17, was on Zoloft when she hung herself in her family’s detached garage.

•Matthew Miller was 13 saw a psychiatrist because he was having difficulty and school. The psychiatrist recommended Zoloft for him. Seven days after beginning the Zoloft samples, his mother found him dead… hanging by a belt from a laundry hook in his closet.

• Alex Kim- 13, hung himself soon after his prescription of Lexapro had been doubled.

There's many more in the link that have shot and killed others...in schools or at home. Such as Eric Harris of Colombine who was on Zoloft then Luvox but Dylan Klebold, Colombine- records sealed. Batman shooters was being treated by someone known for dispensing such drugs. Also Andrea Yates. I say investigate this more and get rid of these drugs. Some of the lawsuits reveal that some big pharmaceutical companies hid that these drugs produced violent and homicidal side-effects in order to get the FDA to approve them. The use of these drugs were on the rise in the later 80's into the 90's correlating with these shootings in schools. Now it's in cinemas and malls.

Dr. Gary Kohls
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:50 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by mcan View Post
PC is about non offensive language. What you're talking about is shooting people in the village square. How can you propose such an idea and in the same breath call yourself one of the sane, rational ones? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you... We already have a death penalty for the worst of us, and this dude would have certainly been a deserving candidate. What more are you proposing we do?
The death penalty isn't used nearly enough. Not even close.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:13 AM   #65
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The death penalty isn't used nearly enough. Not even close.
Well, these type of killers usually kill themselves.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:17 AM   #66
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Funny I saw a thread title of Mental Illness and saw BEP as the poster and thought this was either a confession or a leaving the planet thread.

I am disappoint.
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High Tech is Sorcery and the people who are really powerful are literally telling people to commit crimes using the psychic interspace created by the WWW and Wireless. They are controlling peoples actions like drones . The two things are deeply intertwined. The more man's brain interfaces with machines the creepier it gets. They use brains separate from a human body in a supercomputer and you have The Image of the Beast. The military has been doing this since the 50s
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:27 AM   #67
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Are you suffering from projection again, Dave Lane?

There's crazy and their's evil. You are evil and crazy<-----since you see it so often in others.


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Old 12-16-2012, 09:08 AM   #68
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Look at the dates on this USA Today's timeline of mass shootings in schools. Look at the dates when the frequency increases.

So what changed? More SSRI's being used? Culture coarsening? Both?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...story/1771271/
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Old 12-17-2012, 03:43 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcan View Post
PC is about non offensive language. What you're talking about is shooting people in the village square. How can you propose such an idea and in the same breath call yourself one of the sane, rational ones? Maybe I'm misunderstanding you... We already have a death penalty for the worst of us, and this dude would have certainly been a deserving candidate. What more are you proposing we do?
1. You've been a whining, blubbering puff since the inception of this board, so pardon me if I don't put too much internal strife in the fact that you think I'm less sane than you.

2. If the asshole in Sandy Hook had been sent to the land of misfit toys, nearly 30 innocent people would be alive today. I think that's a pretty good trade.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:16 PM   #70
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Personality disorders have no "cure." People can go through therapy to help with controlling the symptoms of their disorder and they can learn to live with it, often times relatively symptom free. But it is not in any way, shape, or form an easy thing to overcome.

Imagine being a person who just loves to help others because it makes you feel good to make a difference. This trait is an enduring part of your personality and affects you in nearly every situation you find yourself in. Now imagine going to therapy and someone telling you that you can no longer help others and that you must change this behavior because it is negative and it is the cause of the impairment in everyday functioning that you are experiencing. That is the level of change that has to occur in people with personality disorders in order for them to make progress.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:20 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Look at the dates on this USA Today's timeline of mass shootings in schools. Look at the dates when the frequency increases.

So what changed? More SSRI's being used? Culture coarsening? Both?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...story/1771271/
More drugs being used for sure.

That's all Dr's do now...you go in, they write Rx's, and send you out the door, then they have more time to see more people and they make more money and also get kickbacks from the drug companies that provide them the drugs they prescribe.
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Old 12-17-2012, 04:44 PM   #72
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More drugs being used for sure.

That's all Dr's do now...you go in, they write Rx's, and send you out the door, then they have more time to see more people and they make more money and also get kickbacks from the drug companies that provide them the drugs they prescribe.
Some of the Dr.'s offices I've been to, the number of pharmaceutical representatives rivals the number of patients. Un****ingbelievable the number of those dragging little wheeled carts behind themselves. Crazy, when they come into the office, the front desk waves them right into the core of the offices
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:34 PM   #73
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Some of the Dr.'s offices I've been to, the number of pharmaceutical representatives rivals the number of patients. Un****ingbelievable the number of those dragging little wheeled carts behind themselves. Crazy, when they come into the office, the front desk waves them right into the core of the offices
Pushers and dope dealers dont have to deal with all that stuff.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:08 PM   #74
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
Personality disorders have no "cure." People can go through therapy to help with controlling the symptoms of their disorder and they can learn to live with it, often times relatively symptom free. But it is not in any way, shape, or form an easy thing to overcome.

Imagine being a person who just loves to help others because it makes you feel good to make a difference. This trait is an enduring part of your personality and affects you in nearly every situation you find yourself in. Now imagine going to therapy and someone telling you that you can no longer help others and that you must change this behavior because it is negative and it is the cause of the impairment in everyday functioning that you are experiencing. That is the level of change that has to occur in people with personality disorders in order for them to make progress.
You're wasting your time. This thread has been taken over by the conspiracy nuts and science illiterate.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:10 PM   #75
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Originally Posted by CoMoChief View Post
More drugs being used for sure.

That's all Dr's do now...you go in, they write Rx's, and send you out the door, then they have more time to see more people and they make more money and also get kickbacks from the drug companies that provide them the drugs they prescribe.
You are, without a doubt, the best contrary indicator I've ever come across. Please take up an interest in financial marktets and individual stocks and post your opinions here.
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