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Make America Great Again
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Let's research gun violence.
I've said this in a couple other threads, but I don't believe that gun control is going to get any traction in Congress. Some Democrats will push for it, some other Republicans will table it, some pro-gun control folks like myself will cry foul, and yet another Congress will pass without any gun control measures seeing the light of day.
But here's one thing that maybe we can start doing: better educate ourselves on gun violence, so we can stop stabbing in the dark as to what we can better do to mitigate it. The problem is that for a couple decades now, the government has not been able to produce any information on gun violence because the NRA has been threatening war if Congress failed to choke off all funding for gun-related research. The CDC and NIH used to conduct research for decades, but around the time of the late 90s, the NRA became so powerful it was able to prevent these agencies from granting funds to researchers on those topics. McClatchy DC: Quote:
Anyway, there's a ton of stories on this, but here's a really good one from last year in the Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us...anted=all&_r=0 N.R.A. Stymies Firearms Research, Scientists Say By MICHAEL LUO Published: January 25, 2011 In the wake of the shootings in Tucson, the familiar questions inevitably resurfaced: Are communities where more people carry guns safer or less safe? Does the availability of high-capacity magazines increase deaths? Do more rigorous background checks make a difference? The reality is that even these and other basic questions cannot be fully answered, because not enough research has been done. And there is a reason for that. Scientists in the field and former officials with the government agency that used to finance the great bulk of this research say the influence of the National Rife Association has all but choked off money for such work. “We’ve been stopped from answering the basic questions,” said Mark Rosenberg, former director of the National Center for Injury Control and Prevention, part of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which was for about a decade the leading source of financing for firearms research. Chris Cox, the N.R.A.’s chief lobbyist, said his group had not tried to squelch genuine scientific inquiries, just politically slanted ones. “Our concern is not with legitimate medical science,” Mr. Cox said. “Our concern is they were promoting the idea that gun ownership was a disease that needed to be eradicated.” The amount of money available today for studying the impact of firearms is a fraction of what it was in the mid-1990s, and the number of scientists toiling in the field has dwindled to just a handful as a result, researchers say. The dearth of money can be traced in large measure to a clash between public health scientists and the N.R.A. in the mid-1990s. At the time, Dr. Rosenberg and others at the C.D.C. were becoming increasingly assertive about the importance of studying gun-related injuries and deaths as a public health phenomenon, financing studies that found, for example, having a gun in the house, rather than conferring protection, significantly increased the risk of homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance. Alarmed, the N.R.A. and its allies on Capitol Hill fought back. The injury center was guilty of “putting out papers that were really political opinion masquerading as medical science,” said Mr. Cox, who also worked on this issue for the N.R.A. more than a decade ago. Initially, pro-gun lawmakers sought to eliminate the injury center completely, arguing that its work was “redundant” and reflected a political agenda. When that failed, they turned to the appropriations process. In 1996, Representative Jay Dickey, Republican of Arkansas, succeeded in pushing through an amendment that stripped $2.6 million from the disease control centers’ budget, the very amount it had spent on firearms-related research the year before. “It’s really simple with me,” Mr. Dickey, 71 and now retired, said in a telephone interview. “We have the right to bear arms because of the threat of government taking over the freedoms that we have.” The Senate later restored the money but designated it for research on traumatic brain injury. Language was also inserted into the centers’ appropriations bill that remains in place today: “None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.” The prohibition is striking, firearms researchers say, because there are already regulations that bar the use of C.D.C. money for lobbying for or against legislation. No other field of inquiry is singled out in this way. In the end, researchers said, even though it is murky what exactly is allowed under this provision and what is not, the upshot is clear inside the centers: the agency should tread in this area only at its own peril. “They had a near-death experience,” said Dr. Arthur Kellermann, whose study on the risks versus the benefits of having guns in the home became a focal point of attack by the N.R.A. In the years since, the C.D.C. has been exceedingly wary of financing research focused on firearms. In its annual requests for proposals, for example, firearms research has been notably absent. Gail Hayes, spokeswoman for the centers, confirmed that since 1996, while the agency has issued requests for proposals that include the study of violence, which may include gun violence, it had not sent out any specifically on firearms. “For policy to be effective, it needs to be based on evidence,” said Dr. Garen Wintemute, director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis, who had his C.D.C. financing cut in 1996. “The National Rifle Association and its allies in Congress have largely succeeded in choking off the development of evidence upon which that policy could be based.” Private foundations initially stepped into the breach, but their attention tends to wax and wane, researchers said. They are also much more interested in work that leads to immediate results and less willing to finance basic epidemiological research that scientists say is necessary to establishing a foundation of knowledge about the connection between guns and violence, or the lack thereof. The National Institute of Justice, part of the Justice Department, also used to finance firearms research, researchers said, but that money has also petered out in recent years. (Institute officials said they hoped to reinvigorate financing in this area.) Stephen Teret, founding director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, estimated that the amount of money available for firearms research was a quarter of what it used to be. With so much uncertainty about financing, Mr. Teret said, the circle of academics who study the phenomenon has fallen off significantly. After the centers’ clash with the N.R.A., Mr. Teret said he was asked by C.D.C. officials to “curtail some things I was saying about guns and gun policy.” Mr. Teret objected, saying his public comments about gun policy did not come while he was on the “C.D.C. meter.” After he threatened to file a lawsuit against the agency, Mr. Teret said, the officials backed down and gave him “a little bit more leeway.” C.D.C. financing for research on gun violence has not stopped completely, but it is now mostly limited to work in which firearms are only a component. The centers also ask researchers it finances to give it a heads-up anytime they are publishing studies that have anything to do with firearms. The agency, in turn, relays this information to the N.R.A. as a courtesy, said Thomas Skinner, a spokesman for the centers. Invariably, researchers said, whenever their work touches upon firearms, the C.D.C. becomes squeamish. In the end, they said, it is often simply easier to avoid the topic if they want to continue to be in the agency’s good graces. Dr. Stephen Hargarten, professor and chairman of emergency medicine at the Medical College of Wisconsin, used to direct a research center, financed by the C.D.C., that focused on gun violence, but he said he had now shifted his attention to other issues. |
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#166 | |
Administrator
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Quote:
You then back up my assertion with a completely unsubstantiated claim that the NRA somehow has total control over CDC grants. That's ridiculous... and sounds a hell of a lot more like a "conspiracy" than anything I have stated. Here is the simple core issue... You and others like you don't like the NRA and feel that their bullying(there is no doubt they are a bully, anyone with any sense can see that) needs to be countered by an equal measure of anti-gun rhetoric. Fine. I have no problem with that. What I have a problem with is that your ilk thinks it's ok to steal from me to get to that end. The NRA is a private group, privately funded, that pushes its agenda... yet you somehow think it's ok to make a government agency your own personal lobbyist for your agenda. The CDC funds plenty of gun violence research based on objective facts and figures. What you and the other whiners are upset about is that they don't fund gun control propaganda research. I for one am happy that the CDC isn't allow to push your bullshit agenda. Stop relying on the government and start funding a PRIVATE group to do the spurious research you want pushed. You're far worse than someone who wants to take away people's guns... you want them to pay for the propaganda you'll use to do it as well. Last edited by AustinChief; 12-18-2012 at 01:26 AM.. |
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#167 | ||||
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Quote:
Exerting political influence to prevent certain research from being conducted is not a conspiracy, nor have I claimed that it is. Quote:
It should sound ridiculous, and if I had claimed that, it would be ridiculous. But of course I have not claimed that. Instead I'm arguing that the NRA, like the AARP, AIPAC, and a few other select interest groups, has such immense influence over what lawmakers do that if they claim they want the kabash on certain studies, lawmakers are often happy to oblige. That doesn't give them total control, however. That's a strawman on your behalf. Quote:
There are plenty of pro-gun control lobbies, though none of them, even put together, have the push that the NRA does. Quote:
Is there any evidence that CDC is/was conducting research that is overtly slanted to the pro-gun control point of view? Anything? I'll say this... it's really hard to get anything done in the way of conversation when you repeatedly, blatantly, and probably intentionally misrepresent my point of view, AC. It's evidence of either disingenuousness, or (my guess) your typical hyper-emotional posting style. Either way, it's just wheels spinning in mud. |
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#168 | |
The 23rd Pillar
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#169 |
Make America Great Again
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I'll say this, the NRA has now, over the past year, withdrawn its Twitter and Facebook accounts, in the wake of multiple mass shootings.
If it cannot find a way to make ground with the upcoming generations, then we may be (praise jesus) witnessing the apex of its political power, and it could be downhill from here for a while. As usual, it's a long game. |
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#170 |
The 23rd Pillar
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pedo talk
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#171 | |
The 23rd Pillar
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#172 |
Praise Him
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no, lets research violent people who mis use guns.
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No Jesus No Peace Know Jesus Know Peace Ephesians 2:8-10 English Standard Version (ESV) 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. |
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#173 |
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Let's reduce spending and let others fund research into these areas. We're not facing a crisis here, but we *are* facing a spending crisis (which is much bigger than the immediate concern over the deficit, the debt ceiling, or the so-called fiscal cliff).
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#174 |
It's Five O'Clock Somewhere
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Adventure is dangerous....but monotony can kill you. |
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#175 |
Veteran
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The natural reaction to horrific incidents like this is a call for action. We simply must do something! Murdered children create an emotion response, it would speak poorly of us all if it did not.
The problem is that when we react emotionally we often, find ourselves enacting “feel good” measures that create additional bureaucracy, additional government control, additional taxes and a curtailing of personal freedoms that far too often do nothing to address the problem or in some cases exacerbate it. Those on the left side of the isle might pause and consider the emotion of 9-11 and the responses that might have been better, if dealt with in a less emotional way. I have found the media’s 24/7 wailing, and pathetic attempts to make their selves part of the story disgusting. I suspect that in the end our honorable congress people will shove through legislation much like the previous one that will deal more with how some firearms look than their actual function or capabilities. |
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#176 |
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Define crisis.
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#177 | |
Fighting the invasion
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#178 | |
Wearing ballistic dog goggles.
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#179 | |
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#180 | |
Fighting the invasion
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