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Old 12-16-2012, 10:35 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Let's research gun violence.

I've said this in a couple other threads, but I don't believe that gun control is going to get any traction in Congress. Some Democrats will push for it, some other Republicans will table it, some pro-gun control folks like myself will cry foul, and yet another Congress will pass without any gun control measures seeing the light of day.

But here's one thing that maybe we can start doing: better educate ourselves on gun violence, so we can stop stabbing in the dark as to what we can better do to mitigate it.

The problem is that for a couple decades now, the government has not been able to produce any information on gun violence because the NRA has been threatening war if Congress failed to choke off all funding for gun-related research.

The CDC and NIH used to conduct research for decades, but around the time of the late 90s, the NRA became so powerful it was able to prevent these agencies from granting funds to researchers on those topics. McClatchy DC:

Quote:
The CDC and NIH award billions in grants. They fund research into cancer, brain injury, tobacco use, obesity, AIDS, abortion, hearing loss, allergies, infectious diseases, back pain and virtually everything else related to human health. But gun violence is the one area that carries that specific language. The effect has been to limit federal funding into research that could be used to shape policy.
This is irresponsible. We pass hundreds of gun-related laws across the country every few years. Like all laws, we should be able to research the impact of the laws we pass, so we can make decisions based on more than pure ideology.

Anyway, there's a ton of stories on this, but here's a really good one from last year in the Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/26/us...anted=all&_r=0

N.R.A. Stymies Firearms Research, Scientists Say
By MICHAEL LUO
Published: January 25, 2011

In the wake of the shootings in Tucson, the familiar questions inevitably resurfaced: Are communities where more people carry guns safer or less safe? Does the availability of high-capacity magazines increase deaths? Do more rigorous background checks make a difference?

The reality is that even these and other basic questions cannot be fully answered, because not enough research has been done. And there is a reason for that. Scientists in the field and former officials with the government agency that used to finance the great bulk of this research say the influence of the National Rife Association has all but choked off money for such work.

“We’ve been stopped from answering the basic questions,” said Mark Rosenberg, former director of the National Center for Injury Control and Prevention, part of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which was for about a decade the leading source of financing for firearms research.

Chris Cox, the N.R.A.’s chief lobbyist, said his group had not tried to squelch genuine scientific inquiries, just politically slanted ones.

“Our concern is not with legitimate medical science,” Mr. Cox said. “Our concern is they were promoting the idea that gun ownership was a disease that needed to be eradicated.”

The amount of money available today for studying the impact of firearms is a fraction of what it was in the mid-1990s, and the number of scientists toiling in the field has dwindled to just a handful as a result, researchers say.

The dearth of money can be traced in large measure to a clash between public health scientists and the N.R.A. in the mid-1990s. At the time, Dr. Rosenberg and others at the C.D.C. were becoming increasingly assertive about the importance of studying gun-related injuries and deaths as a public health phenomenon, financing studies that found, for example, having a gun in the house, rather than conferring protection, significantly increased the risk of homicide by a family member or intimate acquaintance.

Alarmed, the N.R.A. and its allies on Capitol Hill fought back. The injury center was guilty of “putting out papers that were really political opinion masquerading as medical science,” said Mr. Cox, who also worked on this issue for the N.R.A. more than a decade ago.

Initially, pro-gun lawmakers sought to eliminate the injury center completely, arguing that its work was “redundant” and reflected a political agenda. When that failed, they turned to the appropriations process. In 1996, Representative Jay Dickey, Republican of Arkansas, succeeded in pushing through an amendment that stripped $2.6 million from the disease control centers’ budget, the very amount it had spent on firearms-related research the year before.

“It’s really simple with me,” Mr. Dickey, 71 and now retired, said in a telephone interview. “We have the right to bear arms because of the threat of government taking over the freedoms that we have.”

The Senate later restored the money but designated it for research on traumatic brain injury. Language was also inserted into the centers’ appropriations bill that remains in place today: “None of the funds made available for injury prevention and control at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention may be used to advocate or promote gun control.”

The prohibition is striking, firearms researchers say, because there are already regulations that bar the use of C.D.C. money for lobbying for or against legislation. No other field of inquiry is singled out in this way.

In the end, researchers said, even though it is murky what exactly is allowed under this provision and what is not, the upshot is clear inside the centers: the agency should tread in this area only at its own peril.

“They had a near-death experience,” said Dr. Arthur Kellermann, whose study on the risks versus the benefits of having guns in the home became a focal point of attack by the N.R.A.

In the years since, the C.D.C. has been exceedingly wary of financing research focused on firearms. In its annual requests for proposals, for example, firearms research has been notably absent. Gail Hayes, spokeswoman for the centers, confirmed that since 1996, while the agency has issued requests for proposals that include the study of violence, which may include gun violence, it had not sent out any specifically on firearms.

“For policy to be effective, it needs to be based on evidence,” said Dr. Garen Wintemute, director of the Violence Prevention Research Program at the University of California, Davis, who had his C.D.C. financing cut in 1996. “The National Rifle Association and its allies in Congress have largely succeeded in choking off the development of evidence upon which that policy could be based.”

Private foundations initially stepped into the breach, but their attention tends to wax and wane, researchers said. They are also much more interested in work that leads to immediate results and less willing to finance basic epidemiological research that scientists say is necessary to establishing a foundation of knowledge about the connection between guns and violence, or the lack thereof.

The National Institute of Justice, part of the Justice Department, also used to finance firearms research, researchers said, but that money has also petered out in recent years. (Institute officials said they hoped to reinvigorate financing in this area.)

Stephen Teret, founding director of the Johns Hopkins Center for Gun Policy and Research, estimated that the amount of money available for firearms research was a quarter of what it used to be. With so much uncertainty about financing, Mr. Teret said, the circle of academics who study the phenomenon has fallen off significantly.

After the centers’ clash with the N.R.A., Mr. Teret said he was asked by C.D.C. officials to “curtail some things I was saying about guns and gun policy.”

Mr. Teret objected, saying his public comments about gun policy did not come while he was on the “C.D.C. meter.” After he threatened to file a lawsuit against the agency, Mr. Teret said, the officials backed down and gave him “a little bit more leeway.”

C.D.C. financing for research on gun violence has not stopped completely, but it is now mostly limited to work in which firearms are only a component.

The centers also ask researchers it finances to give it a heads-up anytime they are publishing studies that have anything to do with firearms. The agency, in turn, relays this information to the N.R.A. as a courtesy, said Thomas Skinner, a spokesman for the centers.

Invariably, researchers said, whenever their work touches upon firearms, the C.D.C. becomes squeamish. In the end, they said, it is often simply easier to avoid the topic if they want to continue to be in the agency’s good graces.

Dr. Stephen Hargarten, professor and chairman of emergency medicine at the Medical College of Wisconsin, used to direct a research center, financed by the C.D.C., that focused on gun violence, but he said he had now shifted his attention to other issues.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:25 AM   #16
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
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Ban all guns and arm the psychopaths with Bows, Knives and other assorted love pieces. Give good and get good in return.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:26 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiveSteam View Post
The Clinton ban was hardly what I would call a gun ban or any real type of controll on assault weapons.
Gone were
Bayonets & bayonet lugs
Flash hiders
AK's had to have a thumb hole stock.
Hi cap mags were a lil harder to find at reasonable prices. Everyone still had them.
It was all window dressing
True. It was more like a ban on things that make guns look scarier.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:27 AM   #18
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jspchief View Post
True. It was more like a ban on things that make guns look scarier.
Thus we have the ever scary assault weapon.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:30 AM   #19
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
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Anyone remember this story?

Man who beheaded and cannibalised fellow passenger on Greyhound bus thought he was attacking an alien

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz2FK7bZCQN

Should we ban knives as well? or if someone on the bus was armed would that have possibly prevented this?
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:32 AM   #20
HonestChieffan HonestChieffan is offline
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And people laugh about zombies
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:32 AM   #21
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Quote:
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And people laugh about zombies
Cue bump with his it was the aliens pic.....
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:36 AM   #22
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What we have is a generation of X-box & PS-3 kids that need to be deprogrammed.
20 years worth of parents that think. Oh how nice. I can sit Timmy down in front of the TV & he will play Grand Theft Auto for hours & hours. Hes so happy now. He doesn't even care where his dad is anymore or that he has not seen or spoken to his father in a month.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:52 AM   #23
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Let's research what makes the statists' brains operate. Then we can cure this disease.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:58 AM   #24
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How come the Centers for DISEASE CONTROL are involved in this shit anyway? Shouldn't it be the ATF? Is gun ownership a disease now? WTF?
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:06 AM   #25
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If you want to get serious about this then by all means let's discuss the issue of violence. Just leave guns out of it. The gun is nothing more than a tool. What is wrong with sociopaths perpetrating these acts of violence.

The violence will not stop just because you take away the law abiding citizens right to have firearms. That is just stupid to believe that it will.

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Old 12-17-2012, 09:19 AM   #26
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Any liberal horseshit that the NRA beats down is a good thing.

BUT IT'S JUST A HARMLESS LITTLE STUDY (that we'll use to enforce more restrictions).

BUT IT'S JUST A HARMLESS LITTLE BAN ON ASSAULT RIFLES (and when we push it through we'll go after your handguns).

BUT IT'S JUST A HARMLESS LITTLE BAN ON HANDGUNS (and now you're defensless HAHA).

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Old 12-17-2012, 09:23 AM   #27
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I've spent a while reading these links and the deeper I get it appears that the NRA did not believe it was the Governments job to spread lies and propaganda so the put a stop to it. We still fund research but now that they can't just throw anything out there.
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Old 12-17-2012, 09:25 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InChiefsHell View Post
How come the Centers for DISEASE CONTROL are involved in this shit anyway? Shouldn't it be the ATF? Is gun ownership a disease now? WTF?
I’m pretty sure the FBI already has a data base it keeps updated with this kind of information.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:20 AM   #29
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Do I know a solution to this epidemic of gun violence? No. But:

1. The US has had guns legal for centuries. Only in the last few years have these mass killings taken the spotlight. So what has changed is not guns, but something else in society. What could that be? Consider:

2. Our amazing acceptance of violence in our 'entertainment'. There used to be westerns and shoot 'em ups before, but the graphic and glorifying nature of murder is appalling. I went to the latest Dark Knight Movie and 3 of the 4 previews were The Bourne Legacy, Looper, and Total Recall, three movies that have, as the 'good' guy protagonist, an assassin or mercenary. Add to that the popularity of violent video games and I really can't see why anyone would surprised.

3. A decade of 'war on terror' has given this country many chances to honor our soldiers and heros of war, but the public is so detached from what really happens, do they (especially young kids) know what war really is? What it means to kill someone?

4. Abortion. WHAT? you say? Yes. Anytime as a society we make excuses as to why we should be able to end a human life, it lessens the value of life itself. If we start to rationalize why its ok to kill if as long as there is a just cause, then that line gets blurred. If responsible adults aren't around to guide young people as to where that line is, then you can have things like this happens. It's all connected IMO.

The mental disease aspect of the cause has legs, but in some ways I also feel it is a cop-out and another layer of a blindfold to put over our eyes when it comes to how we value life in this country.
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Old 12-17-2012, 10:25 AM   #30
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Quote:
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Seriously? We're even going to be anti-research, now?
We should be looking for ways to cut spending not ways to increase it.
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