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Old 12-03-2011, 01:38 PM  
suzzer99 suzzer99 is offline
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More republicans vs. the middle class

http://www.cnbc.com/id/45526332

Quote:
US House Republicans Divided over Payroll Tax Cut
Published: Friday, 2 Dec 2011 | 1:58 PM ET

Republican leaders in the U.S. House pushed ahead Friday to extend a popular payroll tax cut for another year despite opposition within their own ranks.

Following a 90-minute closed-door meeting, many Republicans said there was strong opposition but that House Speaker John Boehner planned to work to renew President Barack Obama's tax cut, which is set to expire on Dec. 31.

Republicans have been lukewarm about extending this particular tax cut, saying it has failed to stimulate the economy and will weaken the Social Security [cnbc explains] retirement program over the long run.

But with fears of a political backlash in the run-up to November's presidential and congressional elections, their leaders have decided to also seek an extension.

If Republicans blocked the tax cut, "They (Democrats) are going to say, 'There they go, Republicans raising taxes,"' said Republican Representative Charles Boustany.

And so as Congress tries to wind down for the year, some Republicans, who rose to power opposing tax hikes, found themselves in the rare position of trying to block a tax cut financial markets think is vital to the economy.

Obama sought to ratchet up the pressure on Republicans to pass the extension, telling lawmakers they must not leave for their holiday break this month without taking action.

"We need to get this done. And I expect that it's going to get done before Congress leaves. Otherwise, Congress may not be leaving and we can all spend Christmas here together."

Late on Thursday, the Senate defeated competing versions of payroll tax cut extension bills, with most Republicans in that chamber bucking their own leadership's proposal — a rare occurrence. Senate and House leaders are now expected to begin negotiating a compromise.

"There was a lot of push back" during the private meeting of House Republicans, Representative Jeff Flake told reporters as he left the room.

Flake, a conservative who has devoted his House career to controlling government spending, complained that it will take 10 years for the government to recoup the approximately $110 billion in lost revenues stemming from a continuance of the tax cut through 2012.

"I think unless we have the courage right now to address entitlement reform, we shouldn't be extending the payroll tax holiday. But we don't have the courage right now to do that," Flake said.


Workers and employers pay the tax and the revenues are deposited into a Social Security retirement fund. The money returns to workers after they retire from the work force.

Obama and his fellow Democrats won passage a year ago of a one-year payroll tax cut to 4.2 percent, down from 6.2 percent.

The idea was that it would put more money, nearly $1,000 per family, in workers' hands to spend and thus help stimulate the economy. The White House has warned that letting the tax cut expire would significantly hurt the economy as it is struggling to grow.

Senate Republicans defeated a Democratic plan to offset the revenues that would be lost with a surtax on the wealthy.

Like their Senate counterparts, House Republican leaders have proposed paying for the tax cut extension in part by freezing federal employee wages through 2015, said Representative Steven LaTourette.

He said there was a long list of other savings, including some changes to Medicare [cnbc explains] healthcare programs and raising fees investors pay for mortgage transactions involving government sponsored agencies Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac.

All of these ideas have been discussed by Democrats and Republicans during budget talks earlier this year, he said.

The Republican plan, LaTourette said, would also extend unemployment insurance benefits for the long-term unemployed, but with some reforms.

LaTourette said some of his fellow Republicans proposed a "tradeoff" for extending the payroll tax cut.

"Some people think ... if you are going to give someone $900, that perhaps there should be a tradeoff: you have to delay your (Social Security) retirement for a month. That wasn't very popular" in the meeting, he said.
Gee Mr. Flake, What about the supposedly temporary Bush tax cuts? Why are you willing to ruin our global credit rating to keep extending those forever? How does letting the Bush tax cuts expire violate the Norquist pledge but letting the payroll tax holiday run out does not?

If you have to pay up to $3k next year in taxes (If repups let it go back to 6% - Obama has proposed dropping it from the current 4% to 3%), at least you know whom to blame. (Although I have a feeling most of you will still find some way to blame Obama anyway.)


Here's more fun reading: http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...0,597985.story

Quote:
"The depth of the resistance also was on display in the Senate this week, where a majority of Republicans rejected not only a Democratic proposal to pay for the payroll tax break by raising taxes on people who make more than $1 million a year, but also the GOP's plan to fund it with other spending reductions.

The dissent has put Republicans in the unusual position of fighting a tax break — a rarity that Democrats are highlighting given that the GOP historically has made low taxes a hallmark of its platform."
I don't understand how a mere 3 months ago in the debt ceiling debate they were ready to shut down the country rather than let the Bush tax cuts expire on the wealthy. Yet now they won't even vote to extend the payroll tax holiday on the middle class. Why does that not apply to the Grover Norquist pledge? Why is that not "class warfare" on the middle class?

I seriously don't understand how they're getting away with this. Help me understand the cognitive dissonance here o bastion of conservative thought that is the DC forum.
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:19 PM   #2
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Wow I guess no one really wanted to touch this one. Enjoy your increased taxes next year!
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Old 12-04-2011, 09:53 PM   #3
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:06 AM   #4
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Well, it was reported that Obama is taking a 17 day vacation to Hawaii....so, they must have gotten it done?
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:12 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Wow I guess no one really wanted to touch this one. Enjoy your increased taxes next year!
Enjoy digging through dumpsters when you retire.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:39 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
This column ignores the fact that for several decades the Social Security payroll taxes collected far more money than was paid out in benefits. The extra money went into the general fund and was used to mask the true size of the deficit, and worthless IOUs were given to the Social Security trust fund. At the end of 2010, the accumulated surplus stood at $2.6 Trillion, but that's just an accounting fiction since Congress gleefully spent all of that money on other things. Everybody knew that money that was collected for Social Security was being pumped into the general fund.

I have to agree with the Dems on this issue. The public overpaid their payroll taxes for decades, and it didn't do them any good. Maybe it's time to cash in some of those IOUs. If you're going to argue that the Bush tax cuts must be retained, it's hypocritical to argue that the Obama payroll tax cuts must be allowed to expire. Class warfare works both ways.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:58 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Fanatic View Post
This column ignores the fact that for several decades the Social Security payroll taxes collected far more money than was paid out in benefits. The extra money went into the general fund and was used to mask the true size of the deficit, and worthless IOUs were given to the Social Security trust fund. At the end of 2010, the accumulated surplus stood at $2.6 Trillion, but that's just an accounting fiction since Congress gleefully spent all of that money on other things. Everybody knew that money that was collected for Social Security was being pumped into the general fund.

I have to agree with the Dems on this issue. The public overpaid their payroll taxes for decades, and it didn't do them any good. Maybe it's time to cash in some of those IOUs. If you're going to argue that the Bush tax cuts must be retained, it's hypocritical to argue that the Obama payroll tax cuts must be allowed to expire. Class warfare works both ways.

Call me when SS is dead broke because we allowed politics to enter the program and reposition it as a tax increase. We are screwed.
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:11 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by HonestChieffan View Post
Call me when SS is dead broke because we allowed politics to enter the program and reposition it as a tax increase. We are screwed.
Politics entered the program when Congress started robbing the Social Security "trust fund" 50 years ago. The fact is that payroll taxes have collected over $2 Trillion MORE than the system has paid out. Do you not understand that?

If you think that repealing the payroll tax cut will keep Social Security from going broke, then you simply don't understand what is happening and all you're doing is repeating partisan talking points.
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Fanatic View Post
Politics entered the program when Congress started robbing the Social Security "trust fund" 50 years ago. The fact is that payroll taxes have collected over $2 Trillion MORE than the system has paid out. Do you not understand that?

If you think that repealing the payroll tax cut will keep Social Security from going broke, then you simply don't understand what is happening and all you're doing is repeating partisan talking points.
The fact congress raided the trust fund is all our faults. We should have been dragging our representatives out of their chambers and beating them baby seal style years ago.

That said we need solutions. Like yesterday.
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Old 12-05-2011, 08:45 AM   #10
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:12 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
The fact congress raided the trust fund is all our faults. We should have been dragging our representatives out of their chambers and beating them baby seal style years ago.

That said we need solutions. Like yesterday.
Completely agree. Both parties were at fault on this. This is not a Democrat or Republican issue.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:19 AM   #12
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At least Jeff Flake's been consistent in his hatred of the middle class

http://flake.house.gov/News/Document...umentID=217745

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"Voters in November made it very clear that they want deep cuts to federal spending, and this bill offers exactly the opposite,” said Flake. “We can, and should, extend the Bush tax cuts for longer than two years without the add-ons, like ethanol subsidies, that have bloated this bill.”

"I also worry that without commensurate cuts in benefits, the payroll tax cut in this bill will simply hasten the insolvency of Social Security or add billions of dollars to the national debt.”
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Old 12-05-2011, 10:10 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Fanatic View Post
Politics entered the program when Congress started robbing the Social Security "trust fund" 50 years ago. The fact is that payroll taxes have collected over $2 Trillion MORE than the system has paid out. Do you not understand that?

If you think that repealing the payroll tax cut will keep Social Security from going broke, then you simply don't understand what is happening and all you're doing is repeating partisan talking points.
Its the latter. The idea that the payroll tax cut is somehow harming Social Security is an absurd talking point. The tax cut is funded out of the general fund and doesn't affect SS at all.

Just goes to show you though, you'd better not get between an old man and his government checks, or there'll be hell to pay.
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Fanatic View Post
This column ignores the fact that for several decades the Social Security payroll taxes collected far more money than was paid out in benefits. The extra money went into the general fund and was used to mask the true size of the deficit, and worthless IOUs were given to the Social Security trust fund. At the end of 2010, the accumulated surplus stood at $2.6 Trillion, but that's just an accounting fiction since Congress gleefully spent all of that money on other things. Everybody knew that money that was collected for Social Security was being pumped into the general fund.

I have to agree with the Dems on this issue. The public overpaid their payroll taxes for decades, and it didn't do them any good. Maybe it's time to cash in some of those IOUs.
The public didn't overpay payroll taxes for decades. The fact that what they did pay was funneled out the back door into other government programs doesn't change that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Fanatic View Post
If you're going to argue that the Bush tax cuts must be retained, it's hypocritical to argue that the Obama payroll tax cuts must be allowed to expire. Class warfare works both ways.
Please. That's not hypocrisy for people who believe we should flatten our tax rate structure.
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Royal Fanatic View Post
Politics entered the program when Congress started robbing the Social Security "trust fund" 50 years ago. The fact is that payroll taxes have collected over $2 Trillion MORE than the system has paid out. Do you not understand that?

If you think that repealing the payroll tax cut will keep Social Security from going broke, then you simply don't understand what is happening and all you're doing is repeating partisan talking points.
The system is supposed to take in more than it pays out when you have reason to expect a rapidly growing ratio of retirees to workers in the future.
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