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Old 01-09-2013, 07:42 PM  
Saul Good Saul Good is offline
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****The OFFICIAL 2013 Mizzou Tigers Basketball Thread****

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Old 01-22-2013, 08:44 PM   #451
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College basketball is really a god awful product. If it weren't for the issues of state and university pride I know I wouldn't watch it . In the Age of AAU the vast majority of players are gunners concerned with raising their own profile; as a result, you get players who sprint to the ball without thought of floor spacing or defensive consequences. Few teams can actually pass the ball, and those who can largely cannot shoot.
I think it's really because of the 1 and done rule. Alot of guys who are the big prospects know they are there 1 year, no matter what, these big coaches scramble to get them, knowing full well what will happen.


IMO, either make them able to go straight or go to school for 3 years like football.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:47 PM   #452
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Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
College basketball is really a god awful product. If it weren't for the issues of state and university pride I know I wouldn't watch it . In the Age of AAU the vast majority of players are gunners concerned with raising their own profile; as a result, you get players who sprint to the ball without thought of floor spacing or defensive consequences. Few teams can actually pass the ball, and those who can largely cannot shoot.
Ummm, that's all pretty much in the eye of the beholder. Many coaches still preach and actively coach fundamentals, defensive technique, spacing, et al. Just depends on the program, IMO. Those that don't are not successful.

Case in point . . .

I understand where there are exceptions (the Calipari's of the world), and while I do think those like him deter from the nature of the game, it should be noted that most solid programs have an understanding of the game and its fundamental concepts.
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Old 01-22-2013, 08:48 PM   #453
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I think it's really because of the 1 and done rule. Alot of guys who are the big prospects know they are there 1 year, no matter what, these big coaches scramble to get them, knowing full well what will happen.


IMO, either make them able to go straight or go to school for 3 years like football.
You're talking about an NBA rule. College basketball can't impose that rule on the NBA. What they SHOULD do is make scholarships two year commitments. If the player leaves after his freshman year, the school has to eat that scholly the following year.
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Old 01-22-2013, 09:01 PM   #454
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Most college basketball isn't particularly high quality (there are a lot of bad coaches with even worse, undisciplined teams out there), but you can't tell me, Hamas, that you didn't greatly enjoy watching that Missouri team last year (at least until their untimely demise). Their offense was incredible and fun to watch and if Haith had figured out how to get them to play any defense, they might have won it all.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:36 PM   #455
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Rush to judgment on Haith ignores most important questions


BY SAM MELLINGER
The Kansas City Star

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/01/22...#storylink=cpy

The first game of the rest of Frank Haith’s coaching career was ugly. Coyote ugly. Brick after brick, a talented Missouri basketball team struggling to win a home game it should’ve breezed through, the injured star Laurence Bowers stuck in shirt-and-tie, clapping his hardest.

And, really, a too-close 71-65 win over South Carolina is the least of the Tigers’ concerns.

“My attorneys have not received a letter of any allegations,” Haith said, and that’s a sentence every coach would rather not have to say in a postgame news conference.

Haith has gone from national Coach of the Year awards to his profession’s endangered species list after a CBSSports.com report that indicates he will face serious NCAA charges from a scandal at his previous job in Miami, and it raises more questions than anyone can answer at the moment.

But while most are focusing on the obvious questions — Will MU fire Haith? Should MU fire him? — the most important ones are largely ignored.

Like, how did the report surface before Haith has even seen what he’s charged with? What is the source’s motivation? And are we really in a place where a man should lose his job over something his accuser reportedly says it can’t even prove?

This puts Mizzou in an entirely unfair position. A promising basketball season is being rocked by something it had nothing to do with … that took place on a different campus years ago … that it could not have known about or acted upon … all regarding potential charges that were unethically leaked under questionable circumstances.

If it’s proved that Haith broke rules at Miami, he did his job no worse than the NCAA.

This all stems from a Yahoo! Sports investigation fueled by an imprisoned source and focused on the football team. Haith is caught in the crossfire, far from an innocent victim if he lied about infractions, but also something like a loitering bystander taken in for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So for the rest of the season, Haith is coaching with a metaphorical lion in the room that he can’t say much about. Once he receives the charges, he has up to 90 days to respond before a hearing is set, likely this summer. He will have his day in the NCAA’s kangaroo court, in other words, and there is a bit of a hopeful new undercurrent around Columbia that he can be persuasive enough to keep his job.

An infractions committee will presumably examine the motivations of the leak, because it’s not hard to imagine the NCAA putting this out there in order to turn up public heat in a case it knows is light on evidence.

Mizzou sports seem to have an unbreakable connection to never-ending drama, and this is the story that isn’t going away soon. But unlike a lot of it, this one isn’t MU’s fault.

Yahoo’s report was still four months away when Haith was hired at Mizzou, and athletics director Mike Alden — who’s in China on business — has said the NCAA gave him no hint of any wrongdoing when he was researching Haith’s background.

The NCAA has emphasized sticking punishments with coaches more than schools, and if it’s proved Haith cheated, and especially that he lied about it, then he has earned the punishment.

But we should also keep in mind that in the world of college basketball, these accusations essentially translate to a speeding ticket — maybe in a work zone. Haith just had the misfortune of being at a school with a football program under investigation by a relentless reporter.

What’s interesting is that the Miami investigation isn’t the only major change for Haith in the last 17 months. He also won 30 games last year, so even with more recent struggles at least some fans want to see more of him.

In the end, whether Haith is retained will depend on more than just what the NCAA can prove. This is big business, after all, so Haith still has about two months to make his case through basketball. If the NCAA leaked the allegations to turn up public heat in what might be a flimsy case, Haith has his argument, too.

The Tigers play Vanderbilt on Saturday. They think Bowers might be healthy. Haith’s fight to retain his job will be televised.
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:37 PM   #456
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Most college basketball isn't particularly high quality (there are a lot of bad coaches with even worse, undisciplined teams out there), but you can't tell me, Hamas, that you didn't greatly enjoy watching that Missouri team last year (at least until their untimely demise). Their offense was incredible and fun to watch and if Haith had figured out how to get them to play any defense, they might have won it all.
I enjoyed watching them play because they played well together. That's a rarity in college BB. They were still a very poor perimeter defensive team, and although they would often shoot the lights out, the scheme was pretty simplistic, which touches on another qualm of mine: The college arc should be 22.5'
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:42 PM   #457
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Rush to judgment on Haith ignores most important questions


BY SAM MELLINGER
The Kansas City Star

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/01/22...#storylink=cpy

The first game of the rest of Frank Haith’s coaching career was ugly. Coyote ugly. Brick after brick, a talented Missouri basketball team struggling to win a home game it should’ve breezed through, the injured star Laurence Bowers stuck in shirt-and-tie, clapping his hardest.

And, really, a too-close 71-65 win over South Carolina is the least of the Tigers’ concerns.

“My attorneys have not received a letter of any allegations,” Haith said, and that’s a sentence every coach would rather not have to say in a postgame news conference.

Haith has gone from national Coach of the Year awards to his profession’s endangered species list after a CBSSports.com report that indicates he will face serious NCAA charges from a scandal at his previous job in Miami, and it raises more questions than anyone can answer at the moment.

But while most are focusing on the obvious questions — Will MU fire Haith? Should MU fire him? — the most important ones are largely ignored.

Like, how did the report surface before Haith has even seen what he’s charged with? What is the source’s motivation? And are we really in a place where a man should lose his job over something his accuser reportedly says it can’t even prove?

This puts Mizzou in an entirely unfair position. A promising basketball season is being rocked by something it had nothing to do with … that took place on a different campus years ago … that it could not have known about or acted upon … all regarding potential charges that were unethically leaked under questionable circumstances.

If it’s proved that Haith broke rules at Miami, he did his job no worse than the NCAA.

This all stems from a Yahoo! Sports investigation fueled by an imprisoned source and focused on the football team. Haith is caught in the crossfire, far from an innocent victim if he lied about infractions, but also something like a loitering bystander taken in for being in the wrong place at the wrong time.

So for the rest of the season, Haith is coaching with a metaphorical lion in the room that he can’t say much about. Once he receives the charges, he has up to 90 days to respond before a hearing is set, likely this summer. He will have his day in the NCAA’s kangaroo court, in other words, and there is a bit of a hopeful new undercurrent around Columbia that he can be persuasive enough to keep his job.

An infractions committee will presumably examine the motivations of the leak, because it’s not hard to imagine the NCAA putting this out there in order to turn up public heat in a case it knows is light on evidence.

Mizzou sports seem to have an unbreakable connection to never-ending drama, and this is the story that isn’t going away soon. But unlike a lot of it, this one isn’t MU’s fault.

Yahoo’s report was still four months away when Haith was hired at Mizzou, and athletics director Mike Alden — who’s in China on business — has said the NCAA gave him no hint of any wrongdoing when he was researching Haith’s background.

The NCAA has emphasized sticking punishments with coaches more than schools, and if it’s proved Haith cheated, and especially that he lied about it, then he has earned the punishment.

But we should also keep in mind that in the world of college basketball, these accusations essentially translate to a speeding ticket — maybe in a work zone. Haith just had the misfortune of being at a school with a football program under investigation by a relentless reporter.

What’s interesting is that the Miami investigation isn’t the only major change for Haith in the last 17 months. He also won 30 games last year, so even with more recent struggles at least some fans want to see more of him.

In the end, whether Haith is retained will depend on more than just what the NCAA can prove. This is big business, after all, so Haith still has about two months to make his case through basketball. If the NCAA leaked the allegations to turn up public heat in what might be a flimsy case, Haith has his argument, too.

The Tigers play Vanderbilt on Saturday. They think Bowers might be healthy. Haith’s fight to retain his job will be televised.
Mellinger's article ignores important questions:

1) Is this a well-coached team? No.
2) Do show-cause penalties eviscerate recruiting? Yes.

Whether or not Haith should be indicted or Alden knew isn't germane to this fact: if he is indicted he has to be fired because he's already not good at 1) and he would be prohibited from even being able to recruit.

A coach who can't coach 'em up and can't recruit serves what purpose?
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Old 01-22-2013, 11:44 PM   #458
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I think it's really because of the 1 and done rule. Alot of guys who are the big prospects know they are there 1 year, no matter what, these big coaches scramble to get them, knowing full well what will happen.


IMO, either make them able to go straight or go to school for 3 years like football.
That affects 1% of D-I college basketball players. The problem is that it's the top 1%. I don't want to marginalize its impact, but simply putting all the onus on the one-and-done rule ignores how any kid who plays on an AAU team is taught: get mine. That's inimical to the very essence of basketball.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:07 AM   #459
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I agree with Mellinger that it stinks that the NCAA has not prevented the leaking of this story. To me, this should be a factor that mitigates any sanction if they go forward with allegations and findings.

Regarding the play of this year's team, I do think that Ernie Nestor was important to Mizzou's success last year and wish he was still on Haith's staff.

Haith has been a good recruiter, but he may always need a good offensive assistant.

At this point, I think Haith should keep the job, if his recruits remain committed.

I feel for the guy, this convicted con-man Shapiro should not be able to seek satisfaction through the NCAA, he is in jail because of his Ponzi scheme not because of anything that anybody at Miami did. And the NCAA should prevent leaking stories.

I don't understand why Alden should be blamed. He got a clean report from the NCAA. Seems like conventional opinion was that Matt Painter at Purdue or Brad Stevens at Butler were the hot prospects. Painter is not leaving his alma mater and Purdue is not doing much. Stevens seems very committed to Butler, he is still there and putting good teams on the floor.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:10 AM   #460
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Sucks to be Haith, but if he gets a show cause, you have no choice but to fire him.

It may not be fair, but that's just too bad.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:29 AM   #461
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http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...cement+program


Sounds like the Notice of Allegations are on hold now that the NCAA is investigating....ITSELF due to their guys getting info in an improper manner while working on the Miami case.
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:36 AM   #462
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Hire Bill Self


Posted on: January 21, 2013 at 16:42:29 CT
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Throw an insane amount of money his way. Whatever it takes to bring him here. Then get him behind closed doors for a confession of the dirty tactics used at kU. Beakers are hit hard with penalties. Self is fired without pay for his part in it all. We hire a Brand Stephens or Shaka Smart. Take down kU while bringing ourselves up. Can't see Alden doing this, but after always being the good guys, why can't we do something to benefit ourselves just this once?
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Old 01-23-2013, 11:41 AM   #463
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http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/...cement+program


Sounds like the Notice of Allegations are on hold now that the NCAA is investigating....ITSELF due to their guys getting info in an improper manner while working on the Miami case.
I read the article, makes Mellinger's suggestion that the NCAA, itself, leaked the story more plausible.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:09 PM   #464
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This whole thing is a weird, twisted mess.

If Haith is truly given a show cause, he's unemployable.

But it's hard for me to imagine the NCAA going ahead as planned/detailed in Goodman's report, due to the internal problems with the investigation. And it was incredibly unclear in that report if the supposed money train with Haith/assistants/Shapiro is substantiated in any way other than hearsay from a convicted felon's mother.

If it is, well, the unethical conduct makes sense, likely sticks, and Haith is probably unemployed for a long time.

I have a gut feeling the NCAA ends up slapping Haith on the wrist for the flight stuff (which happens EVERYWHERE and is not considered a big deal) and the rest of the purported coming charges disappear. Of course, even then... it's not good to have the NCAA's attention on you, especially in college basketball. He'll have to be incredibly cautious for years as a result.
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Old 01-23-2013, 12:22 PM   #465
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NCAA Had Nevin Shapiro’s Defense Attorney On Its Payroll, Suspends Miami Investigation

Barry Petchesky

Not a good day for the NCAA. The enforcement program, the hired guns responsible for investigating and recommending penalties for NCAA infractions, has come under its own scrutiny. The probe into the University of Miami booster scandal has been put on hold today, as president Mark Emmert announced a number of problems with the investigation. Most notably: Nevin Shapiro's attorney was paid by the NCAA to obtain documents that they weren't legally allowed to have. Improper conduct all around!

You remember the Miami scandal. Shapiro, a booster currently behind bars for his role in a Ponzi scheme, was alleged to have provided cash and gifts to numerous players and recruits. The NCAA's only source seemed to be Shapiro himself, who was pushing a book and was bitter toward the university for turning its back on him. In a teleconference with reporters today, Emmert revealed that investigators had relied on information gathered from Shapiro's bankruptcy proceedings—something the NCAA isn't supposed to have access to.

The information was obtained through Shapiro's defense attorney, who was on the NCAA's payroll. Curiously, Emmert said that nobody in Indianapolis had approved the attorney's hire, and the payouts were only discovered when a bill showed up months later.

The NCAA has retained an outside law firm to examine what happened here, and will not proceed with the Miami case until that investigation is finished. Miami, meanwhile, has banned itself for the past two postseasons with self-imposed sanctions.

"To say the least, I am angered and saddened by this situation. Trust and credibility are essential to our regulatory tasks," said Emmert. "My intent is to ensure our investigatory functions operate with integrity and are fair and consistent with our member schools, athletics staff and most importantly our student-athletes," he added.

There was not nearly so much self-examination after it emerged that an NCAA investigator had made up her mind about UCLA's Shabazz Muhammad even before a ruling was made. That came to light when the investigator's boyfriend loudly boasted about how the NCAA would declare him ineligible, a conversation overheard on an airplane.

That investigator was fired, and judging from the NCAA's reference to "former" enforcement staff members in the Miami case, there are a few more people out of work today.

Like we said, not a good day for the NCAA, but a great day for anyone who believes the system is fundamentally broken and unfair. It'd be nice if the whole thing were blown up, but expect some cosmetic fixes before the cartel carries on. Considering the NCAA only expects this investigation to last 7-10 days, they'll be back to business soon enough.
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