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View Poll Results: How do you feel about the smoking ban?
Love it 38 53.52%
Hate it 8 11.27%
It's still a violation of my civil rights 13 18.31%
Couldn't care less one way or the other 12 16.90%
Voters: 71. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-16-2013, 12:05 PM  
Bowser Bowser is offline
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After the fact - KC's smoking ban, three+ years later

So, now that we have had time to adjust and absorb the smoking ban, how do you feel about it? Was it a good thing, a bad thing, still an unholy infringement on our "civil rights", or do you just not care one way or another?

Poll to come.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:59 PM   #301
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[quote=dmahurin;9334015]
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Originally Posted by Cmd'r&Chief View Post

Suzzer, this is the troll I was referencing.
You're a ****ing troll for calling anybody a troll. Come on dude, stop being a sissy ass pussy fart. Don't call people ****ing trolls. Use something more manly and less nerdy...Like Jizz Goblin, or dildo fart.

By definition of troll though...how the hell am I a troll? Because I disagree with you on something? Or because I'm having a discussion on a discussion forum? ...****ing troll... seriously? Wtf is wrong with you?
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:01 PM   #302
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
No I would not be okay with a law prohibiting the bar from allowing patrons to Murchies gear, because that does no good and causes harm just by being a stupid law on the books. If you don't understand that's my argument, you really haven't been following very closely.

Now why don't you tell me why food inspections are so much different? Shouldn't I have the right to serve whatever food I want to my customers? If I make them sick they just won't come back.
Asked and answered already. Food inspections protect you from an INVISIBLE but LEGITIMATE harm. Non-smokers know what they are getting when they go to a smoking bar.

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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
You remember bars where you could barely see 10 feet of visibility? You're going to tell me a bartender spending 40 hours a week in that doesn't face potential health problems? I'm sure pro football helmets don't violate OSHA safety standards either. And we all know where that's headed.
Yes. But then again I've studied ETS extensively. The dose makes the poison.
In this case it doesn't present a significant health risk. Even in a super smoky bar. (This excludes asthmatics or people with an "allergy"... but those present special cases.. also unproven but not studied enough for me to have an solid opinion on)
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:01 PM   #303
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I've listened, you simply haven't made your case in the least. Your concept of what is "good" is a MAJOR problem., It's YOUR OPINION of what is good. Who the **** are YOU to decide that for a bar owner... for all the patrons? You have it in your head that your opinion of what is good is more than just your opinion. It isn;t. Nor is my opinion important. The ONE PERSON who has an opinion that matters is the private property owner. Otherwise you are left with what you seem to be advocating... letting the whims of public opinion strip others of their rights.
And you haven't explained in the least why all those other things I listed are somehow vastly different from this. Societies make laws. They don't always get it right. But they tend to do better than dictators, which is the only realistic alternative to mob rule. Yes, sometimes rights are trampled. Rights are a very malleable thing that can be defined a million different ways based on who's doing the defining. You seem to take it as self-evident that the a ability to have people smoke in my bar is a right. I personally don't think it's that much different than any other restrictions placed on public establishments.

Tell me – do you get this hot and heavy about sodomy laws? How do you feel about Lawrence vs. Texas? Why should a person not have the right to do whatever they want with a consenting adult in their own bedroom? That's a very clear-cut case of the majority rule oppressing a minority. Only in that case there was actual harm. So I would assume that that would bother you a lot more. Right?

Or do you think the right of a bar owner to have smoke in his establishment, when it doesn't result in him losing business either way, is somehow similar on the cosmic relevance scale to the right of a gay person not to be thrown in jail for having sex in their own bedroom?
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:02 PM   #304
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[quote=Cmd'r&Chief;9334027]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmahurin View Post

You're a ****ing troll for calling anybody a troll. Come on dude, stop being a sissy ass pussy fart. Don't call people ****ing trolls. Use something more manly and less nerdy...Like Jizz Goblin, or dildo fart.

By definition of troll though...how the hell am I a troll? Because I disagree with you on something? Or because I'm having a discussion on a discussion forum ?
Or ASS PIPE! Or my favorite board insult... DITCH PIG!
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:02 PM   #305
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Originally Posted by Cmd'r&Chief View Post
I agree people have a right to have weapons for hobby. It isn't my hobby, but I can respect if it's yours. But I do believe that something needs to be done. And it will likely need to be drastic. The laws need some serious, serious tightening.
Clearly thinking is not a hobby of yours either~
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:04 PM   #306
Cmd'r&Chief Cmd'r&Chief is offline
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
Clearly thinking is not a hobby of yours either~
Come on now. Don't get angry. It's just the internet, and nobody tried to bang your mom...Damn bro, if it hurt your feelings that much I apologize. Cool?
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:04 PM   #307
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
And you haven't explained in the least why all those other things I listed are somehow vastly different from this. Societies make laws. They don't always get it right. But they tend to do better than dictators, which is the only realistic alternative to mob rule. Yes, sometimes rights are trampled. Rights are a very malleable thing that can be defined 1 million different ways based on who's doing the defining. You seem to take it as self-evident that the a ability to have people smoke in my bar is a right. I personally don't think it's that much different than any other restrictions placed on public establishments.

Tell me – do you get this hot and heavy about sodomy laws? How do you feel about Lawrence vs. Texas? Why should a person not have the right to do whatever they want with a consenting adult in their own bedroom? That's a very clear-cut case of the majority rule oppressing a minority. Only in that case there was actual harm, so I would assume that that would bother you a lot more. Right?

Or do you think the right of a bar owner to have smoke in his establishment, when it doesn't result in him losing business either way, is more important than the right of a gay person not to be thrown in jail for having sex in their own bedroom?
I am walking out the door so I will have to address most of this post later.. but yes sodomy laws suck and are clearly wrong. I am very pro rights of most kinds so I'm not sure what gave you the impression otherwise. I would rail against sodomy laws except I think most people these days agree that they are shit... so it doesn't seem like something people need to hear about.. but I agree.. those are even worse violations than this.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:08 PM   #308
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Originally Posted by Cmd'r&Chief View Post
Come on now. Don't get angry. It's just the internet, and nobody tried to bang your mom...Damn bro, if it hurt your feelings that much I apologize. Cool?
once again you fail at basic thought~
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:12 PM   #309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
Asked and answered already. Food inspections protect you from an INVISIBLE but LEGITIMATE harm. Non-smokers know what they are getting when they go to a smoking bar.
I can't see what secondhand smoke is going to do to my lungs in 40 years any more than I can see bacteria in my food. As recently as the 80s tobacco companies and their shill scientists were still spreading FUD telling us cigarettes didn't cause lung cancer. So forgive me if I think it's better for people to just not take the risk.


Quote:
Yes. But then again I've studied ETS extensively. The dose makes the poison.
In this case it doesn't present a significant health risk. Even in a super smoky bar. (This excludes asthmatics or people with an "allergy"... but those present special cases.. also unproven but not studied enough for me to have an solid opinion on)
Okay, so if an asthmatic can't go to a bar with their friends because of smoke – how is that any different from a person in a wheelchair who can't go with their friends to a bar because it has no wheelchair ramp? Just because one group is included in the ADA and the other isn't makes all the difference to you? That's where we're going to split hairs on this? We cry for the poor bar owner who doesn't even lose any business - but hey screw the asthmatic? Lovely.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:12 PM   #310
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
once again you fail at basic thought~
Care to share? not your point...but of how your uncle used to touch you inappropriately. It wasn't your fault, you didn't know he was your father at the time.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:14 PM   #311
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Originally Posted by AustinChief View Post
I am walking out the door so I will have to address most of this post later.. but yes sodomy laws suck and are clearly wrong. I am very pro rights of most kinds so I'm not sure what gave you the impression otherwise. I would rail against sodomy laws except I think most people these days agree that they are shit... so it doesn't seem like something people need to hear about.. but I agree.. those are even worse violations than this.
Good to hear.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:17 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by Cmd'r&Chief View Post
Care to share? not your point...but of how your uncle used to touch you inappropriately. It wasn't your fault, you didn't know he was your father at the time.
You are in a tough crowd scooter, your feeble effort to troll doesn't even make a splash around here~
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:22 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by suzzer99 View Post
Okay, so if an asthmatic can't go to a bar with their friends because of smoke how is that any different from a person in a wheelchair who can't go with their friends to a bar because it has no wheelchair ramp? Just because one group is included in the ADA and the other isn't makes all the difference to you? That's where we're going to split hairs on this? We cry for the poor bar owner who doesn't even lose any business - but hey screw the asthmatic? Lovely.
No, there isn't enough proof either way on this so I don't have an opinion on ETS and people with pre-existing bronchial conditions. As I said, I'm leaving so I will have to address it later. I will say that if there was overwhelming proof I would reconsider, possibly. I would probably do what the ADA often does, require the bar AT LEAST have a clean air section tailored to them if that was the case.
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:26 PM   #314
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Originally Posted by RedNeckRaider View Post
You are in a tough crowd scooter, your feeble effort to troll doesn't even make a splash around here~

I'm sorry, but I'm trying to understand how anybody here takes a raider fan's opinion too seriously...I mean shit, you are a raiders fan...but hey, whatever works for you. What I'm wondering is Wtf did you do over at the raider forums to get banned?
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Old 01-19-2013, 08:32 PM   #315
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Originally Posted by Cmd'r&Chief View Post
I'm sorry, but I'm trying to understand how anybody here takes a raider fan's opinion too seriously...I mean shit, you are a raider fan...but hey, whatever works for you. What I'm wondering if Wtf did you do over at the raider forums to get banned?
Well I can only hope you did not lead off with your best material~
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