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Old 01-17-2013, 09:07 PM  
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:00 PM   #5071
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I don't think it's the kids coming in as much as it is the teams dumbing things down and going to simpler style offenses when these guys first get in.


All these rookies save for Luck, basically had 1 read fairly simple offenses early on. The ones who are successful atleast.
I agree and I think they are doing that with spread QB's.

The problem with that is that good defenses figure it out eventually. RG3 and Cam help make that a hell of a lot harder though because they can beat you with their legs.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:05 PM   #5072
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Originally Posted by O.city View Post
I don't think it's the kids coming in as much as it is the teams dumbing things down and going to simpler style offenses when these guys first get in.


All these rookies save for Luck, basically had 1 read fairly simple offenses early on. The ones who are successful atleast.
There are a lot of easy 2 reads that most colleges use as well as NFL systems.

****, even that play that Mooch drew up for Geno could technically be described as a 1 read play if the QB dumps off the flat initially by observers. In fact, the "check down" is designated as the first read. Most people don't understand that.

There are 1 read plays, and then there are plays that look like they have 1 read because of the design and how they are used. ****, even Rich Rodriguez, who supposedly only uses 1 read systems has screen plays that are 2 and 3 reads with the screen being the 3rd option.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:09 PM   #5073
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I agree and I think they are doing that with spread QB's.

The problem with that is that good defenses figure it out eventually. RG3 and Cam help make that a hell of a lot harder though because they can beat you with their legs.
Well, you obviously aren't going to win really big with a rookie QB. I think what Wilson did is about the best you can expect because yes defenses do figure that out. Thats when you start doing more and more when he gets more comfortable. There is obviously going to be a learning curve, but the fact that you can make it easy on a rookie for him to get his feet wet makes it alot easier.

It's basically what any rookie QB will go thru, whatever system he comes from. You just have to accept that you have a rookie Qb and you aren't counting on winning now, it's for the future.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:10 PM   #5074
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I agree and I think they are doing that with spread QB's.

The problem with that is that good defenses figure it out eventually. RG3 and Cam help make that a hell of a lot harder though because they can beat you with their legs.
Nearly all plays have multiple reads. The benefit of the spread, especially in college, is that it is easy to go to your first read. Now, this can be viewed as a negative and a positive. "He goes to his first read consistently" is normally viewed as a negative, however, his first read is the correct one and open it is positive.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:13 PM   #5075
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There are a lot of easy 2 reads that most colleges use as well as NFL systems.

****, even that play that Mooch drew up for Geno could technically be described as a 1 read play if the QB dumps off the flat initially by observers. In fact, the "check down" is designated as the first read. Most people don't understand that.

There are 1 read plays, and then there are plays that look like they have 1 read because of the design and how they are used. ****, even Rich Rodriguez, who supposedly only uses 1 read systems has screen plays that are 2 and 3 reads with the screen being the 3rd option.
IMO, people get confused with QB's and "reads". For teh most part, your reads are done before the snap. When you have to go to second reads, third reads, it's usually when defenses go exotic and fool you. It's why you don't see Brady, Brees, etc go to a second read alot, they don't get confused very often.

The hardest things for rookies are pre snap IMO and when they actually have to make reads. I'd venture to say from watching this year, Cam, RGIII, and Wilson didn't go to their 2 read too many times.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:14 PM   #5076
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...what? Just because a guy is drafted 10th, doesn't mean they are the 10th best prospect. It means the team who just took them, thought they were the best for their team, at that time.
What are you talking about? Miller has Geno going 3rd to OAK. He has him as his 10th best player. That means he thinks he is the 10th best player. Thus, him saying we will be glad we didn't get him doesn't make sense since he himself thinks he is the 10th best player.

You keep talking like Miller is mocking Geno at 10 and that it's what we are talking about. It's not.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:15 PM   #5077
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Well, you obviously aren't going to win really big with a rookie QB. I think what Wilson did is about the best you can expect because yes defenses do figure that out. Thats when you start doing more and more when he gets more comfortable. There is obviously going to be a learning curve, but the fact that you can make it easy on a rookie for him to get his feet wet makes it alot easier.

It's basically what any rookie QB will go thru, whatever system he comes from. You just have to accept that you have a rookie Qb and you aren't counting on winning now, it's for the future.
The real trick is to have a variety of personnel (formations and alignments) that create confusion and additionally have a good gameplan. Having a QB that is solid pre-snap is key (Identifying the front (which all playbooks have and is also taught to the OL), identifying the coverage (via safeties, LBs positions and leverage from the corners) and understanding your matchups (which is through a Qbs understanding of their own players and the opponents)).
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:20 PM   #5078
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:20 PM   #5079
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What are you talking about? Miller has Geno going 3rd to OAK. He has him as his 10th best player. That means he thinks he is the 10th best player. Thus, him saying we will be glad we didn't get him doesn't make sense since he himself thinks he is the 10th best player.

You keep talking like Miller is mocking Geno at 10 and that it's what we are talking about. It's not.
There you go. That's all you had to say. I had no way of knowing from those tweets that he also mentioned he is his #10 overall player.

I don't read shit on that children's bleacher report website.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:22 PM   #5080
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There you go. That's all you had to say. I had no way of knowing from those tweets that he also mentioned he is his #10 overall player.

I don't read shit on that children's bleacher report website.
I don't read that site either. I didn't realize until I came back what the issue was.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:22 PM   #5081
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IMO, people get confused with QB's and "reads". For teh most part, your reads are done before the snap. When you have to go to second reads, third reads, it's usually when defenses go exotic and fool you. It's why you don't see Brady, Brees, etc go to a second read alot, they don't get confused very often.

The hardest things for rookies are pre snap IMO and when they actually have to make reads. I'd venture to say from watching this year, Cam, RGIII, and Wilson didn't go to their 2 read too many times.
I disagree with the last part. There are several plays in which I saw both Robert and Russell go to their 2nd and 3rd read. For example, if you watch the Skins/Cowboys game, there's a play where Robert goes to his third read from a doubles left, where the WR screen was the 1, the 9 on the same side was the second, and the TE running a dig was the 3rd. That's just from memory but IIRC, the game is on youtube. I'll have to find it.

Additionally, there are several simple concepts that are 2 reads that look like 1 read plays (Smash, Levels, Shallow Cross, curl/flats).
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:25 PM   #5082
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I disagree with the last part. There are several plays in which I saw both Robert and Russell go to their 2nd and 3rd read. For example, if you watch the Skins/Cowboys game, there's a play where Robert goes to his third read from a doubles left, where the WR screen was the 1, the 9 on the same side was the second, and the TE running a dig was the 3rd. That's just from memory but IIRC, the game is on youtube. I'll have to find it.

Additionally, there are several simple concepts that are 2 reads that look like 1 read plays (Smash, Levels, Shallow Cross, curl/flats).
Thats kind of what I'm getting at with reads. People think reads go from one side to another back to said side.

Most guys reads are one single sides, opposite side being the likely last read. You only have so much time back there.


I didn't watch a whole lot of RGIII as I wasn't really into football this year, for obvious reasons. That said, Wilson of early to mid season was alot different thatn the Wilson we saw late.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:32 PM   #5083
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Also, IIRC, alot of the concepts that Geno ran at WV, are being incorporated, or already are at the NFL level.
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Old 02-26-2013, 08:32 PM   #5084
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Thats kind of what I'm getting at with reads. People think reads go from one side to another back to said side.

Most guys reads are one single sides, opposite side being the likely last read. You only have so much time back there.


I didn't watch a whole lot of RGIII as I wasn't really into football this year, for obvious reasons. That said, Wilson of early to mid season was alot different thatn the Wilson we saw late.
I didn't get to watch much of either until late. The RG3 one is just a play that kinda stuck with me.

I do agree that from what little I've seen that A) Wilson had a dumbed down O to begin the season and improved exceptionally and B) the read concepts applied later helped him gain confidence/speed in going through progressions. People think the RO is super easy, but when you have a PA RO called, the QB has to identify front, coverage, then read the DE/OLB, then drop and make his reads throwing. Now, those throws are helped by the RO sucking LBs/Safeties in and also open up double moves for your WRs, however, the QB has to make a minimum of 2 reads and typically more (1 for the DE, 1 minimum for the pass play called)

In short, you aren't successfully operating the RO consistently in the NFL unless you are a QB who can process information and understand defenses.
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:32 PM   #5085
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