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Old 01-24-2013, 10:50 AM  
Direckshun Direckshun is online now
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The Sequester and/or Government Shutdown Approacheth

Anybody else ****ing fed up with this shit? 2013: Year of the Cliff.

Sequester hits March 1st. Government shutdown hits March 27th.

Here's the conversation on the fiscal cliff. Here's the conversation on the debt ceiling (which we'll be returning to by May... sigh).

The White House discusses the entirety of the impact in post 136. It's devastating.

Here's the FAQ on the sequester (from September):

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...ter-explained/

The sequester, explained
Posted by Suzy Khimm
on September 14, 2012 at 2:35 pm

The White House has released its plan explaining how the sequester’s mandatory spending cuts to defense and domestic spending will be implemented in 2013. Here’s the background on what the sequester is, how it happened and what happens from here:

What is the sequester?

It’s a package of automatic spending cuts that’s part of the Budget Control Act (BCA), which was passed in August 2011. The cuts, which are projected to total $1.2 trillion, are scheduled to begin in 2013 and end in 2021, evenly divided over the nine-year period. The cuts are also evenly split between defense spending — with spending on wars exempt — and discretionary domestic spending, which exempts most spending on entitlements like Social Security and Medicaid, as the Bipartisan Policy Center explains. The total cuts for 2013 will be $109 billion, according to the new White House report.

Under the BCA, the cuts were triggered to take effect beginning Jan. 1 if the supercommittee didn’t to agree to a $1.2 trillion deficit-reduction package by Nov. 23, 2011. The group failed to reach a deal, so the sequester was triggered.

Why does everyone hate the sequester so much?

Legislators don’t have any discretion with the across-the-board cuts: They are intended to hit all affected programs equally, though the cuts to individual areas will range from 7.6 percent to 9.6 percent (and 2 percent to Medicare providers). The indiscriminate pain is meant to pressure legislators into making a budget deal to avoid the cuts.

How would these cuts affect the country?

Since the details just came out, it’s not entirely clear yet. But many top defense officials have warned that the cuts will lead the military to be “hollowed out.” Democratic legislators have similarly warned about the impact on vital social programs. And defense, health care and other industries that are significantly dependent on federal spending say that major job losses will happen if the cuts end up taking effect.

At the same time, if legislators try to avoid the sequester without replacing it with real deficit reduction, the U.S. could face another credit downgrade.

Why did Congress and the White House agree to the sequester in the first place?

The government was approaching its debt limit, which needed to be raised through a congressional vote or else the country would default in early August 2011. While Democrats were in favor of a “clean” vote without strings attached, Republicans were demanding substantial cuts in exchange for raising the debt limit.

President Obama and congressional leaders ultimately agreed to the BCA, which would allow the debt ceiling to be raised by $2.1 trillion in exchange for the establishment of the supercommittee tied to the fall-back sequester, as the Center for Budget and Policy Priorities explains. The deal also includes mandatory spending reductions on top of the sequester by putting caps on non-entitlement discretionary spending that will reduce funding by $1 trillion by 2021.

Who supported the debt-ceiling deal?

Party leaders, the White House and most members of Congress supported the debt-ceiling deal: The BCA passed on a 268-161 vote in the House, with about one-third of House Republicans and half of House Democrats opposing it. It passed in the Senate, 74-26, with six Democratic senators and 19 Republican senators opposing it.

Can the sequester be avoided?

Yes, but only if Congress passes another budget deal that would achieve at least $1.2 trillion in deficit reduction. Both Democrats and Republicans have offered proposals to do so, but there still isn’t much progress on a deal. The political obstacles are the same as during the supercommittee negotiations: Republicans don’t want to raise taxes to generate revenue, while Democrats are reluctant to make dramatic changes to entitlement programs to achieve savings.

What happens from here?

No one on Capitol Hill thinks any deal will happen before Election Day. After Nov. 6, Congress will have just a few weeks to come up with an alternative to the sequester. The challenge is complicated by the fact that the Bush tax cuts, the payroll tax, unemployment benefits and a host of other tax breaks are all scheduled to expire Dec. 31. The cumulative impact of all of these scheduled cuts and changes is what’s popularly known as the fiscal cliff. There’s already talk of passing a short-term stopgap budget plan during the lame-duck session to buy legislators more time to come up with a grand bargain.

Last edited by Direckshun; 02-09-2013 at 10:11 PM..
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Old 02-21-2013, 11:54 AM   #256
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Sequestration is a $1.2 trillion cut over the next decade that will cost nearly 1 million jobs and plunge us into a double-dip recession.

One hopes it will be quickly dealt with in the budget showdown.
Your biggest load of pure 100% bullshit to date. Way to go
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:14 PM   #257
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The previous budget showdown in the 90s against the previous, popular Democratic President was a political shitstorm for the GOP.
You didn't answer the question. I'm familiar with the history. What's the lesson?
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:21 PM   #258
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It's a $1.2 trillion cut.
If that was in one year, it would be huge. If it was over 3 years, it would be big. It's over 10 years. That's tiny.

If it were designed to cut from the right places instead of across the board, it would be a good start.
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Old 02-21-2013, 12:25 PM   #259
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If that was in one year, it would be huge. If it was over 3 years, it would be big. It's over 10 years. That's tiny.

If it were designed to cut from the right places instead of across the board, it would be a good start.
Exactly right. I think that's what people are missing. Avoiding the sequester doesn't fix any of our long term problems. That's how deep in shit we are.
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Old 02-21-2013, 01:34 PM   #260
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Exactly right. I think that's what people are missing. Avoiding the sequester doesn't fix any of our long term problems. That's how deep in shit we are.
Also, they are NOT cuts. They are cuts in future growth not actual spending. Just cutting the growth in programs. Quite disingenuous the press is about this.
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:22 PM   #261
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I know you guys have fever dream rationalizations about why your class warfare is "logical", but it's bad for our country.
You are trying to paint a logical and balanced approach with a partisan brush. I realize that the majority on this board are hard right Republicans and the far right side of the Republican party says a balanced approach is liberal class warfare. It's simply not true.

I personally am in favor of entitlement reform in medicare and medicaid. Imposing limits on how long and how much assistance/benefits you can receive from the government. Cutting discretionary expenses as part of a balanced approach.

You are never going to convince me that the taxpayers should be giving $4 billion of their tax money to the most profitable corpoerations in the world, big oil companies. Why should we spend BILLIONS of tax payer $'s to pay big farm corporations to NOT grow any crops. There are a lot of $'s out there like those two examples.

You can expect Democrats to cut head start, college loans, infrastructure projects if we continue to provide BILLIONS of $'s to big corporations that don't need the money to prosper.
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Old 02-21-2013, 05:41 PM   #262
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You are trying to paint a logical and balanced approach with a partisan brush. I realize that the majority on this board are hard right Republicans and the far right side of the Republican party says a balanced approach is liberal class warfare. It's simply not true.

I personally am in favor of entitlement reform in medicare and medicaid. Imposing limits on how long and how much assistance/benefits you can receive from the government. Cutting discretionary expenses as part of a balanced approach.

You are never going to convince me that the taxpayers should be giving $4 billion of their tax money to the most profitable corpoerations in the world, big oil companies. Why should we spend BILLIONS of tax payer $'s to pay big farm corporations to NOT grow any crops. There are a lot of $'s out there like those two examples.

You can expect Democrats to cut head start, college loans, infrastructure projects if we continue to provide BILLIONS of $'s to big corporations that don't need the money to prosper.
Your continued attempts to demonize big oil and your support of punitive tax treatments is ample evidence of your non-balanced, partisan approach to economic policy.
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:03 PM   #263
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
You are trying to paint a logical and balanced approach with a partisan brush. I realize that the majority on this board are hard right Republicans and the far right side of the Republican party says a balanced approach is liberal class warfare. It's simply not true.

I personally am in favor of entitlement reform in medicare and medicaid. Imposing limits on how long and how much assistance/benefits you can receive from the government. Cutting discretionary expenses as part of a balanced approach.

You are never going to convince me that the taxpayers should be giving $4 billion of their tax money to the most profitable corpoerations in the world, big oil companies. Why should we spend BILLIONS of tax payer $'s to pay big farm corporations to NOT grow any crops. There are a lot of $'s out there like those two examples.

You can expect Democrats to cut head start, college loans, infrastructure projects if we continue to provide BILLIONS of $'s to big corporations that don't need the money to prosper.
Even if you kill the tax breaks you are so passionately against what do you have?

Nothing that means much in the big picture of things. You have to at least admit that. Even if republicans go with the farce guess when we'll be revisiting it again? January 2014 because the sequester will kick in again.

Obama is swinging a shiny gold watch in front of you and you're in a trance nodding your head.

Republicans gave Obama what he wanted with tax increases. They have no reason to trust him. Good or bad the sequester is the best thing the republicans can do now for the country since Obama and dems have proven over and over they only act in bad faith.
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:24 PM   #264
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Even if you kill the tax breaks you are so passionately against what do you have?

Nothing that means much in the big picture of things. You have to at least admit that. Even if republicans go with the farce guess when we'll be revisiting it again? January 2014 because the sequester will kick in again.

Obama is swinging a shiny gold watch in front of you and you're in a trance nodding your head.

Republicans gave Obama what he wanted with tax increases. They have no reason to trust him. Good or bad the sequester is the best thing the republicans can do now for the country since Obama and dems have proven over and over they only act in bad faith.
If they took 100% of all the profits made by those they are demonizing it would not put a dent in what we cannot pay~
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Old 02-21-2013, 06:34 PM   #265
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If they took 100% of all the profits made by those they are demonizing it would not put a dent in what we cannot pay~
The dem plan is a farce. Just like the Obama presidency.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:45 PM   #266
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The dem plan is a farce. Just like the Obama presidency.
Yes it is and **** the groupies that support him~
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:51 PM   #267
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Republicans gave Obama what he wanted with tax increases.
No, he didn't. He compromised and the Republicans did the same.
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Old 02-21-2013, 07:58 PM   #268
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Even if you kill the tax breaks you are so passionately against what do you have?
Why do you defend your tax money going for corporate welfare to billion $ profit companies?
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since Obama and dems have proven over and over they only act in bad faith.
uh facts are getting in the way of your argument points. It was the Republicans that never negotiated in good faith. The re-election of Obama means to me that the American public thinks that Obama wasn't the obstructionist. Or why did they re-elect him? Only the hard right agrees with your views.
  • The historical obstructionism of the opposing party was unprecedented. From day one.
  • More filibusters than ever was even dreamed of by the opposing party. Obama had to have 60 votes to pass anything.
  • It started from day one. The Senate majority leader publicly declared that the #1 goal was to make Obama a one term president.
  • On inauguration night top Republicans got together in a steakhouse and conspired to obstruct every single issue or proposal that Obama wanted. And then over the 4 years they carried out that plan.
  • He proposed legislation in the exact same form as previous Republican legislators had proposed. Same exact proposal as the Republican. But now they not only opposed their own ideas and proposals but filibuster the proposal.
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Old 02-21-2013, 09:35 PM   #269
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Why do you defend your tax money going for corporate welfare to billion $ profit companies?
One of your two examples of "corporate welfare" (the oil example) isn't really a valid one as I've explained to you in the past.


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uh facts are getting in the way of your argument points. It was the Republicans that never negotiated in good faith. The re-election of Obama means to me that the American public thinks that Obama wasn't the obstructionist. Or why did they re-elect him? Only the hard right agrees with your views.


* The historical obstructionism of the opposing party was unprecedented. From day one.
On day one (or shortly thereafter when Arlen Specter switched parties), the Republican opposition was irrelevant and couldn't obstruct anything. The democrats had a functionally filibuster-proof majority in the Senate (including the two independents who are democrats in everything but name) and a stranglehold on the House.


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* More filibusters than ever was even dreamed of by the opposing party. Obama had to have 60 votes to pass anything.
That 60 vote thing isn't new. George W. Bush needed 60 votes to move things through the Senate too. It's been that way for a long time. Majority leaders traditionally haven't bothered to move legislation that they knew didn't have the votes, but apparently the democrat strategy over the past few years has been to demonstrate as much resistance from Republicans as possible.

That said, it's not surprising that the filibuster tool was used more over the last few years given the large majority the democrats held. If they'd have held a more narrow majority, they would have been more open to bipartisanship and/or the minority would have had a better chance to peel off a small number of democrats to block legislation by denying a simple majority.

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* It started from day one. The Senate majority leader publicly declared that the #1 goal was to make Obama a one term president.
On day one, the Senate majority leader was Harry Reid.

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* On inauguration night top Republicans got together in a steakhouse and conspired to obstruct every single issue or proposal that Obama wanted. And then over the 4 years they carried out that plan.
Again, for a long time, Republicans were irrelevant. They were probably in that steakhouse because they knew that they were so powerless it didn't matter whether they were in the Capital Building or not. Obama and his cheerleaders are the biggest whiners and take-no-responsibility finger-pointers in the history of mankind.

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* He proposed legislation in the exact same form as previous Republican legislators had proposed. Same exact proposal as the Republican. But now they not only opposed their own ideas and proposals but filibuster the proposal.
Rarely, if at all. Proponents of Obamacare liked to say it was identical to Romneycare and identical to the Heritage plan, neither of which was true. There were similarities, to be sure, but the devil is in the detail.
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Old 02-22-2013, 07:58 AM   #270
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One of your two examples of "corporate welfare" (the oil example) isn't really a valid one as I've explained to you in the past.
.
BS. Giving $4 BILLION a year to big oil companies that have profits of $40 BILLION a year is insane. No clear thinking individual can justify that.
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On day one, the Senate majority leader was Harry Reid.
sorry meant minority leader.
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Rarely, if at all. Proponents of Obamacare liked to say it was identical to Romneycare and identical to the Heritage plan, neither of which was true. There were similarities, to be sure, but the devil is in the detail.
I was also talking about the Dream act, jobs bill, carbon tax etc. You can't seriously deny that Obama proposed Republican ideas and was rejected by Republicans? Republicans proposed a bill put it on the Senate floor, Obama comes out and says good idea, the republicans pull their own bill. Right from the start. **** bipartisanship. FU Obama.

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That 60 vote thing isn't new. George W. Bush needed 60 votes to move things through the Senate too. It's been that way for a long time.
Bullcrap. There is no equivalency. Here's the facts. You are wrong.
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