***OFFICIAL*** 2013 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Cards Minor league system ranked #1 in baseball by Baseball America.

As the Cardinals reorganized the direction — and leadership — of their amateur scouting and minor-league system several years ago, executives pointed at times to rankings from media outlets such as Baseball America, including one that labeled them last in talent as recently as 2005.
“It was a wake-up call to get better,” Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak said.


If rankings continued to be an indication, getting better was only the beginning.


When Baseball America’s 2013 Prospect Handbook reaches shelves early next month, the Cardinals will be unveiled as the annual publication’s No. 1 minor-league system in a ranking of all 30 clubs’ minor-league talent through mid-December, editors at the magazine confirmed.

.
If so, it will be the first time since Baseball America began ranking organizations in 1984 that the Cardinals will have earned the No. 1 spot. It is a significant turnaround for a club that was ranked 30th in minor-league talent in 2002 and 2005.

“People don’t remember how they had some tough drafts and a non-existent international program,” said Jim Callis, an executive at Baseball America. “It was a bad trend. I don’t think people realized how bad it was because of the success at the major-league level. That kind of masked it. It hid how bad the underpinnings were.”


Baseball America’s annual organization rankings are based on the conversations and individual rankings from four of the magazine’s editors. All four had the Cardinals ranked No. 1 this year, Callis said.


The rise comes eight seasons after the Cardinals ranked 30th and represents a steady climb up from a decade spent in the lower third of baseball.


From 2000 through 2007, the Cardinals highest rank was 21.

And yet in the eight seasons since being No. 30 the Cardinals have made strides at the minor-league level while winning two World Series and appearing in four NL championship series.

From 2005 to 2011, no team in the majors had as many drafted players contribute at the major-league level as the Cardinals.

They have not had a pick higher than 13th overall since 1999.


The Cardinals have been successful drafting and grooming complementary players and assets later traded such as former first-rounders Brett Wallace and Colby Rasmus. On the horizon this year are players viewed by several scouting publications as top-shelf talents. Callis has outfielder Oscar Taveras ranked as the second-best position player in all of the minors and righthander Shelby Miller as the second-best pitching prospect in all of the minors. Pitchers Carlos Martinez and Trevor Rosenthal and second baseman Kolten Wong also rate high compared to prospects in other systems.

“I look for elite talent,” Callis explained. “I think you do win with stars. I don’t think you can only win with being solid everywhere but not having a superstar. … I look for balance in the system. I look for how advanced the talent is through the system. (With the Cardinals) you’re looking at an extremely talented farm system with players like Shelby Miller and Trevor Rosenthal who are close to being big-league ready or already are.”
Callis pointed to the Cardinals 2012 draft as an example of the organization’s depth. The Cards had five picks in the first 59. Yet, Callis noted, only one of the picks was able to crack the top seven prospects (see chart).


“One of the things in this time period is that we have invest heavily in the draft, taking advantage of extra picks at the time, and improving what we do in the international market,” Mozeliak said. “It really is a great credit to our scouting, our international staff, and the player development group that turns what scouts give them into prospects.”


The full article here:
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...836de8b3a.html

['Hamas' Jenkins]

In that scenario we're essentially trading flipping two more known commodities (given Hardy's MLB experience and our familiarity with Taveras) for two lesser known commodities with similar levels of upside.

You obviously get more years of use if Adams hits, but he also plays the most easily replaceable position in the game.

Besides, several of Texas' prospects over the last few years have been overrated (Smoak, Feliz, Moreland). Not Angels overrated, but overrated nonetheless.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Conflated Profrar with Andrus.

THIS!

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'd rather trade Holliday for Andrus, but I don't see that happening.

Why would Holliday ever accept a trade? Holliday is here for the duration.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I'd rather have Adams and Profar than O-Tav and Hardy.

It's tempting but damn its hard for me to get behind trading Taveras. I know it makes sense. Craig goes to right. Adams to 1B and we get the best young SS in baseball. I can see why they are talking. Seems to benefit both teams.

But, like Hamas says, the rangers have a history of overvaluing prospects. I hope the Cardinals know lock/stock/barrel/print em/bet the mortgage that Profar is the real deal to pull the trigger on this deal.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

It's tempting but damn its hard for me to get behind trading Taveras. I know it makes sense. Craig goes to right. Adams to 1B and we get the best young SS in baseball. I can see why they are talking. Seems to benefit both teams.

But, like Hamas says, the rangers have a history of overvaluing prospects. I hope the Cardinals know lock/stock/barrel/print em/bet the mortgage that Profar is the real deal to pull the trigger on this deal.

Like I said - you'd better trust your scouts. Not Texas's.

It's not a trade you make this week. Send your top couple of scouts to follow the kid for a week and decide how you want to go from there.

You absolutely, positively, cannot be wrong. Taveras has as low a floor as you'll see in this game for prospects. You simply don't have that kind of bat control and suck.

But I don't see how you can look at the power that Profar's generated at such a young age and with so much more room for growth in his frame, not to mention his plate discipline, and salivate at the thought of building an infield around him for the next decade.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Why would Holliday ever accept a trade? Holliday is here for the duration.

Because the Rangers aren't exactly the Astros.

Playing in Texas and having the opportunity to rest a bit at DH here and there, may be appealing to him.

I don't see why he'd veto a trade, truth be told. The Rangers are as good or better a fit for him as the Cardinals. The fans are good, the weather is great, no income tax and a park that will inflate his HR totals. What's not to like?

[Marcellus the True]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Because the Rangers aren't exactly the Astros.

Playing in Texas and having the opportunity to rest a bit at DH here and there, may be appealing to him.

I don't see why he'd veto a trade, truth be told. The Rangers are as good or better a fit for him as the Cardinals. The fans are good, the weather is great, no income tax and a park that will inflate his HR totals. What's not to like?

So even though he plays for a contender why wold he not want to get traded to another contender in another state rather than stay where he is happy, comfortable, and resides?

And then you have the fact being a Cardinal > than being a Ranger.

Whats not to like right?

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Marcellus

So even though he plays for a contender why wold he not want to get traded to another contender in another state rather than stay where he is happy, comfortable, and resides?

And then you have the fact being a Cardinal > than being a Ranger.

Whats not to like right?

He'd be playing for a contender that told him they thought they'd be better without him.

Vetoing a trade is not a rare occurrence, but it's not terribly common either. Most players, if offered a similar situation, will consent to a trade (or at least try to leverage a few $$ out of it).

We're not sending him to the Pirates - there are few places in baseball better for a hitter to get traded to than the Texas Rangers. I think there's an 80% chance he'd accept the trade.

[PackerinMo]

Time for baseball, I need some happiness after what Mizzou put me through this year. Go Cards!

[frazod]

Originally Posted by PackerinMo

Time for baseball, I need some happiness after what Mizzou put me through this year. Go Cards!

Seriously, let's hear it for the only competitive team in the entire ****ing state.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by PackerinMo

Time for baseball, I need some happiness after what Mizzou put me through this year. Go Cards!

Looks like Waino and the Cardinals both want to get a long term deal before the season starts.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...21491b32b.html

If we sign Pujols, We don't sign Waino, Molina, Westbrook or extend Craig.

I'm okay if Waino is not a Cy Young calibur pitcher in two years. Who better to teach our young pitchers the right way to pitch at the "big show" level than Waino and I hear Carp is going to hang with the team. Waino has already took Miller under his wing. My uncle the Cardinals coach told me that it really started to click with Miller last season after he spent the weekend with Waino.

[PackerinMo]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Looks like Waino and the Cardinals both want to get a long term deal before the season starts.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...21491b32b.html

If we sign Pujols, We don't sign Waino, Molina, Westbrook or extend Craig.

Which is why it was a good move to let him walk in FA. It would have screwed us in the long run. Hopefully Beltran has a repeat performance of last season, he helped fill the void of A.P.

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Looks like Waino and the Cardinals both want to get a long term deal before the season starts.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...21491b32b.html

If we sign Pujols, We don't sign Waino, Molina, Westbrook or extend Craig.

I'm okay if Waino is not a Cy Young calibur pitcher in two years. Who better to teach our young pitchers the right way to pitch at the "big show" level than Waino and I hear Carp is going to hang with the team. Waino has already took Miller under his wing. My uncle the Cardinals coach told me that it really started to click with Miller last season after he spent the weekend with Waino.

You're oversimplifying things.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

You're oversimplifying things.

Which part?

[VAChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

Because the Rangers aren't exactly the Astros.

Playing in Texas and having the opportunity to rest a bit at DH here and there, may be appealing to him.

I don't see why he'd veto a trade, truth be told. The Rangers are as good or better a fit for him as the Cardinals. The fans are good, the weather is great, no income tax and a park that will inflate his HR totals. What's not to like?

The thought crossed my mind too. Craig in left, Adams at first, Taveras backing up Beltran/Jan for a year. It would be sweet, plus you save some cash for a few years to pay Andrus if you like what you see. It won't happen, because I suspect Holliday is looked at as a player who has already peaked, although they know they likely can't keep Andrus and Profar both happy. Neither wants to play 2nd in their primes.