***OFFICIAL*** 2013 STL Cardinals Thread

[BigRedChief]

Cards Minor league system ranked #1 in baseball by Baseball America.

As the Cardinals reorganized the direction — and leadership — of their amateur scouting and minor-league system several years ago, executives pointed at times to rankings from media outlets such as Baseball America, including one that labeled them last in talent as recently as 2005.
“It was a wake-up call to get better,” Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak said.


If rankings continued to be an indication, getting better was only the beginning.


When Baseball America’s 2013 Prospect Handbook reaches shelves early next month, the Cardinals will be unveiled as the annual publication’s No. 1 minor-league system in a ranking of all 30 clubs’ minor-league talent through mid-December, editors at the magazine confirmed.

.
If so, it will be the first time since Baseball America began ranking organizations in 1984 that the Cardinals will have earned the No. 1 spot. It is a significant turnaround for a club that was ranked 30th in minor-league talent in 2002 and 2005.

“People don’t remember how they had some tough drafts and a non-existent international program,” said Jim Callis, an executive at Baseball America. “It was a bad trend. I don’t think people realized how bad it was because of the success at the major-league level. That kind of masked it. It hid how bad the underpinnings were.”


Baseball America’s annual organization rankings are based on the conversations and individual rankings from four of the magazine’s editors. All four had the Cardinals ranked No. 1 this year, Callis said.


The rise comes eight seasons after the Cardinals ranked 30th and represents a steady climb up from a decade spent in the lower third of baseball.


From 2000 through 2007, the Cardinals highest rank was 21.

And yet in the eight seasons since being No. 30 the Cardinals have made strides at the minor-league level while winning two World Series and appearing in four NL championship series.

From 2005 to 2011, no team in the majors had as many drafted players contribute at the major-league level as the Cardinals.

They have not had a pick higher than 13th overall since 1999.


The Cardinals have been successful drafting and grooming complementary players and assets later traded such as former first-rounders Brett Wallace and Colby Rasmus. On the horizon this year are players viewed by several scouting publications as top-shelf talents. Callis has outfielder Oscar Taveras ranked as the second-best position player in all of the minors and righthander Shelby Miller as the second-best pitching prospect in all of the minors. Pitchers Carlos Martinez and Trevor Rosenthal and second baseman Kolten Wong also rate high compared to prospects in other systems.

“I look for elite talent,” Callis explained. “I think you do win with stars. I don’t think you can only win with being solid everywhere but not having a superstar. … I look for balance in the system. I look for how advanced the talent is through the system. (With the Cardinals) you’re looking at an extremely talented farm system with players like Shelby Miller and Trevor Rosenthal who are close to being big-league ready or already are.”
Callis pointed to the Cardinals 2012 draft as an example of the organization’s depth. The Cards had five picks in the first 59. Yet, Callis noted, only one of the picks was able to crack the top seven prospects (see chart).


“One of the things in this time period is that we have invest heavily in the draft, taking advantage of extra picks at the time, and improving what we do in the international market,” Mozeliak said. “It really is a great credit to our scouting, our international staff, and the player development group that turns what scouts give them into prospects.”


The full article here:
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...836de8b3a.html

[Prison Bitch]

Carpenter is the NL's version of Andy Pettitte in terms of his postseason dependability. If he's done, he had a helluva career.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Baseball America, mlb.com and basically every baseball blogger and publication has named the Cardinals as the best farm system in baseball. Yet you still pass out !@#$%'s?

I realize that you feel that if your team doesn't win the World series every year that season is a failure but a FU to our farm system? COME ON MAN!

Mo has failed to properly address the middle infield with a young prospect aside from Wong. The Cardinals best ****ing SS prospect is probably Ryan ****ing Jackson.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Baseball America, mlb.com and basically every baseball blogger and publication has named the Cardinals as the best farm system in baseball. Yet you still pass out !@#$%'s?

I realize that you feel that if your team doesn't win the World series every year that season is a failure but a FU to our farm system? COME ON MAN!

I said FU to John Mozeliak.

Jeff Luhnow built our farm system and he's gone now. Luhnow would've never made the Ramsey pick.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Mo has failed to properly address the middle infield with a young prospect aside from Wong. The Cardinals best ****ing SS prospect is probably Ryan ****ing Jackson.

If he can play credible defense, it's Greg Garcia.

But that's a big if.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

I said FU to John Mozeliak.

Jeff Luhnow built our farm system and he's gone now. Luhnow would've never made the Ramsey pick.

I do think Luhnow deserves a shit load of credit for rebuilding the farm system, but at the same time, I do think Mo deserves credit too but not to the extent of Luhnow. Luhnow pretty much built it up from the ground while Mo is trying to maintain a good system.

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

If he can play credible defense, it's Greg Garcia.

But that's a big if.

Probably so, but Jackson seems to have an above average glove and average bat. Garcia has an above average bat, and hopefully average defense.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

Mo has failed to properly address the middle infield with a young prospect aside from Wong. The Cardinals best ****ing SS prospect is probably Ryan ****ing Jackson.

Every baseball team has holes.

[Rams Fan]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Every baseball team has holes.

It's been a glaring one for about a ****ing decade.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

It's been a glaring one for about a ****ing decade.

I agree.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by BigRedChief

Every baseball team has holes.

And they should recognize and actively attempt to fill those holes.

Instead we drafted a superfluous part with an extremely low ceiling and gave him a contract that was significantly better than his performance, tools or leverage warranted.

[DJ's left nut]

Originally Posted by Rams Fan

I do think Luhnow deserves a shit load of credit for rebuilding the farm system, but at the same time, I do think Mo deserves credit too but not to the extent of Luhnow. Luhnow pretty much built it up from the ground while Mo is trying to maintain a good system.





Probably so, but Jackson seems to have an above average glove and average bat. Garcia has an above average bat, and hopefully average defense.

Jackson has a noodle bat. He hit well at Springfield but everyone hits well at Hammond. At AAA, guys were taking the bat out of his hand. His bat looks a lot like Kozmas but with even less power. I don't see him ever being able to hit enough to be a regular.

If he's Brendan Ryan with the leather, you could up with it. Ryan Jackson isn't Brendan Ryan with the leather.

Garcia at least has a couple of projectable tools, namely his walk rate and bat control. That leads me to believe he can actually play at the next level.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by DJ's left nut

And they should recognize and actively attempt to fill those holes.

Instead we drafted a superfluous part with an extremely low ceiling and gave him a contract that was significantly better than his performance, tools or leverage warranted.

Every team had holes and can't fill them all.

We have to focus on starting pitching. We have absolutely zero chance to compete with the BILLION TV contracts without young quality starting pitching. It balances the $25 million a year hitters and allows us to pursue other FA's or pay our own guys. Instead of buying the most expensive position in baseball, top level pitching.

As far as Ludhow building the #1 farm system by himself and no one else helped...... Last years draft......you are bitching about the Ramsey pick but other baseball gurus praised the move. Allowing them to sign picks in the later rounds with tremendous upside....... and also what about Wachau? He was picked by Mo, flew up the system in a single year. will compete for a spot on the team after a single year in the minors.

[Mi_chief_fan]

Haven't seen much of him, but what I saw of Mejia in the CWS last year, I liked. He looks like he could develop above avg power for a ss.

[BigRedChief]

I think the FO is not going to make Taveras do another year in the minors. Superficial evidence piling up.
Beltran concedes he could use more rest
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...7e67aae86.html

Methany: Taveras will get a good look. Pal up with Beltran, fill in for Beltran and Holliday in spring training
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/baseb...430d5d329.html

['Hamas' Jenkins]

Ideally you want to wait a few months for Taveras to come up because then you get another year on his clock due to the weird way the arb system works.

[BigRedChief]

Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins

Ideally you want to wait a few months for Taveras to come up because then you get another year on his clock due to the weird way the arb system works.

that was the general consensus that the Cards didn't want the 6 year clock to start ticking until he was really ready for prime time to get the most bang for their 6 year buck. They would hold him back until this year didn't count because if he pans out as prediction, he will be making $25+ million a year in year 7 of big show service.

When can you bring up players and not count as a year of service, you know?