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View Poll Results: I'm socially ________ and fiscally ________. (fill in the blanks)
I'm socially LIBERAL and fiscally CONSERVATIVE 23 57.50%
I'm socially LIBERAL and fiscally LIBERAL 4 10.00%
I'm socially CONSERVATIVE and fiscally CONSERVATIVE 11 27.50%
I'm socially CONSERVATIVE and fiscally LIBERAL 1 2.50%
I don't know what I am. I'll let Gaz decide. 1 2.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-28-2013, 10:31 AM  
patteeu patteeu is offline
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I'm socially ________ and fiscally ________. (fill in the blanks)

We've all heard others describe themselves as socially liberal and fiscally conservative. Most of us have described ourselves that way at some point. I've done it before, but I've started avoiding that phrase because I think it means radically different things to different people.

For example, in petez28's recent thread (So, you say you aren't just a party line type of person?), here's a list of people who embrace the description (so far):

Rain Man
Dave Lane
Mr. Flopnuts
chiefzilla1501
crispystl420
AustinChief
FishingRod
Amnorix

That's a pretty varied group of ideologies. So, vote in the poll and let's find the socially conservative, fiscally liberal people.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:36 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by DementedLogic View Post
The term socially liberal is an oxymoron. Socially liberal means you believe in taking the conservative approach to social issues. That would make you socially conservative, which actually means the exact opposite. It exposes the blatant hypocrisy of traditional conservatives and liberals.
Demented indeed.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:40 PM   #32
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:44 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
BTW, out fiscal problems weren't caused by defense spending. Over the past several decades, defense spending has generally been declining as a fraction of both GDP and the federal budget. Entitlement spending and interest payments on the debt are where the budget busting growth comes from.

And declining tax receipts due to the weakened economy.

Federal spending almost immediately increased by about half a trillion under Obama from Bush's last year, AND THEN REMAINED ROUGHLY FLAT for his first term.

With Bush, it went up by half a trillion after four years, and then kept going up.

But bottom line, after four years, both Presidents increased spending by about half a trillion. The ballooning deficit is due to the increase in spending but also the declining revenues, which haven't rebounded very well at all.





Side note -- we do need to cut spending, but let's not ignore other causes of the increasing deficits/debt.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:46 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Yeah, I don't really think they fit anyone very well.

I'm anxious to find someone who describes themselves as a fiscal liberal.
You got one...I am also pretty conservative socially.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:47 PM   #35
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You don't seem to know what you're talking about here. If entitlement spending had declined as a fraction of GDP and the federal budget like defense spending has, we'd either be running massive surpluses or we'd have a balanced budget with dramatically lower tax rates.

The defense budget is not a source of our fiscal problems. At all. Principles of good government demand that we constantly review our defense budget against evolving requirements so we can cut unnecessary or wasteful spending and reallocate funding toward effective programs, but there is absolutely no justification for cutting defense in reaction to the fiscal problems we face.
This is the chart you want.

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Old 01-28-2013, 01:50 PM   #36
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Of course, some of the spike in entitlements is due to various factors that, hopefully, will ameliorate over tiem as we get out of the recession. Items like unemployment and various programs for the poor, which increased dramatically as unemployment ballooned and people lost houses, etc.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:55 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
Put aside the actual issue of defense. You are saying that X is not a fiscal issue/problem, despite spending inceases in X, BECAUSE spending on X as a percentage of Y went down. That's a silly argument, and one you have attacked before.
It depends on what Y is. Think about your own (hypothetical) personal situation. Let's say all of your spending is on hookers and blow and that 5 years ago, your personal budget was in balance. If, during that period, your hooker spending has gone up 10% and your income (Y) has doubled, but you're running out of money 10 days before your monthly paycheck and having to borrow from your trust fund to make it to payday. You've got a cocaine spending problem not a hooker spending problem.
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Old 01-28-2013, 01:57 PM   #38
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:05 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
So yeah, **** off Mr. Goldberg. Your smarmy, know-it-all, condescending article isn't accurate for me, just as it isn't accurate for many other socially liberal / fiscal conservatives who have no party of their own but are lost between two clueless parties who seem hellbent on fiscal insanity.
I don't know. You're better than most people who have traditionally voted democrat, but you do seem to have a blind spot when it comes to taxes. Republicans aren't against addressing the revenue side of this issue, they just understand that revenues need to come from growth not from squeezing existing income even harder.

That said, I don't think Goldberg is saying that everyone who ever described themselves as socially liberal, fiscally conservative is a Bob. I think he's mainly focused on those who supported Obama or otherwise refuse to accept the need to reverse the trend of the ever expanding entitlement state.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:11 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
And declining tax receipts due to the weakened economy.

Federal spending almost immediately increased by about half a trillion under Obama from Bush's last year, AND THEN REMAINED ROUGHLY FLAT for his first term.

With Bush, it went up by half a trillion after four years, and then kept going up.

But bottom line, after four years, both Presidents increased spending by about half a trillion. The ballooning deficit is due to the increase in spending but also the declining revenues, which haven't rebounded very well at all.





Side note -- we do need to cut spending, but let's not ignore other causes of the increasing deficits/debt.
Spending a lot year after year is "ROUGHLY FLAT", but it's also spending a lot. It's time to reign it in, not seek to make it a new normal.

I don't see anyone here defending Bush spending.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:12 PM   #41
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Of course, some of the spike in entitlements is due to various factors that, hopefully, will ameliorate over tiem as we get out of the recession. Items like unemployment and various programs for the poor, which increased dramatically as unemployment ballooned and people lost houses, etc.
Even if you strip those away and just consider SS, Medicare and Medicaid, we've got an entitlement spending problem. The problem existed prior to the economic crisis of 2008, although it was certainly exacerbated by it.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:16 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
It depends on what Y is. Think about your own (hypothetical) personal situation. Let's say all of your spending is on hookers and blow and that 5 years ago, your personal budget was in balance. If, during that period, your hooker spending has gone up 10% and your income (Y) has doubled, but you're running out of money 10 days before your monthly paycheck and having to borrow from your trust fund to make it to payday. You've got a cocaine spending problem not a hooker spending problem.
Problem is, hooker spending went up way more than 10%, and despite it going down as a percentage of income, it is still a huge portion of expenses and therefore should be examined for possible cuts.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:30 PM   #43
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I don't know. You're better than most people who have traditionally voted democrat, but you do seem to have a blind spot when it comes to taxes. Republicans aren't against addressing the revenue side of this issue, they just understand that revenues need to come from growth not from squeezing existing income even harder.
Dude, until the last election they all acted like Grover Norquist had their nuts in a vice and they would never vote to raise a dime on anyone under any circumstances, ever...
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:31 PM   #44
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Spending a lot year after year is "ROUGHLY FLAT", but it's also spending a lot. It's time to reign it in, not seek to make it a new normal.

I don't see anyone here defending Bush spending.

I care more about deficits/debt than absolute spending dollars. In the current environment, I'm not sure that a brutal austerity program would be a great idea, for example.

But yes, spending must be rigorously controlled, which is the opposite of what it has been for a very long time now.
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Old 01-28-2013, 02:31 PM   #45
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