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Old 01-28-2013, 10:50 PM  
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Teicher's Garbage Part Deux: Star's Top 10 QB's

http://www.kansascity.com/2013/01/28...0-grading.html

The Star’s NFL Draft top 10: Grading the QBs
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Arkansas quarterback Tyler Wilson (right) with Kansas State quarterback Collin Klein after the Cotton Bowl.
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January 28
BY ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

Following last week’s Senior Bowl, we’ve decided to spend this week’s edition of The Star’s NFL Draft top 10 on quarterbacks. Arkansas’ Tyler Wilson, North Carolina State’s Mike Glennon, Syracuse’s Ryan Nassib, Miami of Ohio’s Zac Dysert, Oklahoma’s Landry Jones and Florida State’s EJ Manuel participated. While the Chiefs likely won’t take any quarterback with the first pick, keep in mind that with the scouting combine, school and personal workouts and interviews, there’s still time for these prospects and others to climb the board.

• 1. Wilson. He completed eight of 11 passes in the game but for just 40 yards.

• 2. Geno Smith, West Virginia. Opted not to play in the Senior Bowl but can make up ground over the next three months.

• 3. Glennon. Completed eight of 16 passes and had the game’s longest completion of 22 yards.

• 4. Matt Barkley, USC. Didn’t play in the Senior Bowl because of a sprained throwing shoulder.

• 5. Nassib. Was just four of 10 with an interception.

• 6. Tyler Bray, Tennessee. Came out for draft as a junior, so he was ineligible to play in the Senior Bowl.

• 7. Dysert. Was 10 of 16 with a touchdown and an interception.

• 8. Jones. Was just three of nine and was sacked twice.

• 9. Matt Scott, Arizona. Just a one-year starter, but a dual-threat quarterback who can run as well as throw.

• 10. Manuel. Was seven for 10 with a touchdown. He also rushed for a touchdown.

Read more here: http://www.kansascity.com/2013/01/28...#storylink=cpy
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:54 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
Sounds like a great idea after the last 40 years.
We're still here, We're still Chiefs fans. We still came together as a fanbase to oust our GM did we not?

We cleaned house, have a new GM and HC, practically a whole new FO and Staff, and we have the #1 pick in the draft.

IF we didn't believe in this team, we wouldn't be on this board talking about our beloved team.

However, it seems like everyone is in a ****ing panic about what is going to happen in 3 months, when you assholes need to chill out, have a drink, kick back in a lawn chair and take a deep breath. We've got it easy ladies and gents. Papa Walrus is going to do us right.
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Old 01-28-2013, 11:56 PM   #17
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You aren't getting it.

I'll dumb it down.

Lets say Geno is the #1 guy for us, but is guaranteed to be there in the second round.

Do you really want us to waste the #1 on a guy we could get in the 2nd round?
Yeah, yet again I get it. What you don't get is that the bold part isn't going to happen. If every team signed a form stating they couldn't draft Geno in the first then I am gonna draft something else at one. Since that isn't going to happen Reid should just take the QB he wants if he thinks there is even a 5% chance that his QB won't be there for him.

Again, has nothing to do with not understanding it and everything to do with risk and reality. You are just trying to sound like you are talking about some complicated concept nobody can understand. We understand, we just don't agree with it.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:07 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan View Post
Yeah, yet again I get it. What you don't get is that the bold part isn't going to happen. If every team signed a form stating they couldn't draft Geno in the first then I am gonna draft something else at one. Since that isn't going to happen Reid should just take the QB he wants if he thinks there is even a 5% chance that his QB won't be there for him.

Again, has nothing to do with not understanding it and everything to do with risk and reality. You are just trying to sound like you are talking about some complicated concept nobody can understand. We understand, we just don't agree with it.
That isn't it at all, the real issue is you are scared to lose the #1 option for QB for us in this draft.

That's all you have to say.

I'm a gambler, if there's a 95% chance that Geno is there in the second and he's my #1 guy for the position, I'm taking those odds all day long.

It isn't about reality either, it is a about logic.

Everyone here is all in on Geno, but the truth is nobody here knows what Andy Reid and the FO are thinking. We need to let up on the reigns a bit and be happy that we have a new braintrust for this organization and let them do their thing.

If Geno is their #1 guy, and they pass on him in the 1st round, I'm going to support their decision to do so. I don't think it's the most likely of things to happen, but I"m not going to put on the blinders and join this absurd "QB with the #1 pick or bust" bandwagon.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:11 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Exoter175 View Post
That isn't it at all, the real issue is you are scared to lose the #1 option for QB for us in this draft.

Everyone here is all in on Geno, but the truth is nobody here knows what Andy Reid and the FO are thinking. We need to let up on the reigns a bit and be happy that we have a new braintrust for this organization and let them do their thing.

If Geno is their #1 guy, and they pass on him in the 1st round, I'm going to support their decision to do so. I don't think it's the most likely of things to happen, but I"m not going to put on the blinders and join this absurd "QB with the #1 pick or bust" bandwagon.
Pretty sure risk has a lot to do with fearing the loss of the QB Reid and company value the most. So how is that not it at all? The position is too important. I am afraid of losing the #1 option. You talk about trusting Reid and company, well I do. I don't want to lose the guy they think is the best option. Trusting their opinion on the talent and trusting the 95% chance are two different things.

I have never stated that I am done if they don't take Smith. None of this shows I didn't understand your point. I just don't agree with the risk. If Reid finds his guy, don't **** around if there is any chance of you losing him.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:23 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan View Post
Pretty sure risk has a lot to do with fearing the loss of the QB Reid and company value the most. So how is that not it at all? The position is too important. I am afraid of losing the #1 option. You talk about trusting Reid and company, well I do. I don't want to lose the guy they think is the best option. Trusting their opinion on the talent and trusting the 95% chance are two different things.

I have never stated that I am done if they don't take Smith. None of this shows I didn't understand your point. I just don't agree with the risk. If Reid finds his guy, don't **** around if there is any chance of you losing him.
I take it you don't really understand Andy Reid then?

He's going to take that 95% odd as well, which is my point that you didn't quite understand.

Andy Reid isn't really one to go "all in" and just jump all over a player. He's a poker player with his cards held closely to his vest. And in reality, do you know how often teams go into a draft with their #1 guys ranked and watch them taken out from under them all the time? They prepare for situations like that.

If you think for 2 seconds that in the next 3 and a half months Andy Reid and company won't have a contingency plan in check, you're crazy.

The first sign you're going to see if Reid and company end up going all in on a guy, is who we sign for a backup QB. That's going to be Priority #1 after re-signing Albert/Colquitt, and Bowe, or at least trying to. Reid likes a strong #2, so getting a guy like Alex Smith or comparable talent and at least capable of providing a win (like we did with Orton) are going to be paramount to him. If, as an example, we picked Smith up, you bet your ass that is the #1 sign that we are taking a QB in the first round.

I'm all for getting a QB for us, but it doesn't have to be in the first round. Part of drafting well comes from when you select guys and get the most value out of each draft. There's a reason that teams like the Niners, Colts, and Bengals have been pretty successful in the last few years (ignoring the whole Peyton down year), and it comes from their drafts, and not over drafting a guys stock.

Every year I read this bullshit about how there's going to be 10 QBs taken in the first round, and then it doesn't happen. Why? Because of value. Teams aren't going to rush to pounce on QBs in this draft. This is the worst QB draft in quite a while, yet people are already talking about 5-6 Qbs in the first round.

What teams are taking those guys, and who are they taking?

Geno and Wilson are the only two guys worth a first round as of right now, and in the last 2 seasons of drafts, they wouldn't even be taken in the 3rd round, let alone the first. Nassib and Glennon? Late first, early 2nd round guys at best. A team who is desperate might take a shot, but how well did that work for teams like Jacksonville, Tennessee, and Miami? They ended up wasting picks on QBs they could possibly have picked up in the 2nd round or traded back into to select, and could have gotten much better talent on their team in doing so.


Safe to say, I ****ing hate this whole mantra of "you have to take a QB #1", or that bullshit "Due to the new CBA it isn't risky to reach on a QB". Bitch, its risky to take a QB you don't think can start in the NFL, period.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:44 AM   #21
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too much hypothetical here. Geno is the pick/deal done/thx!
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:45 AM   #22
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too much hypothetical here. Geno is the pick/deal done/thx!
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Deal is done after the senior bowl, before the combine, before pro days, and before individual work outs?

Interesting.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:50 AM   #23
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I take it you don't really understand Andy Reid then?

There's a reason that teams like the Niners, Colts, and Bengals have been pretty successful in the last few years (ignoring the whole Peyton down year), and it comes from their drafts, and not over drafting a guys stock.

Every year I read this bullshit about how there's going to be 10 QBs taken in the first round, and then it doesn't happen. Why? Because of value. Teams aren't going to rush to pounce on QBs in this draft. This is the worst QB draft in quite a while, yet people are already talking about 5-6 Qbs in the first round.

Safe to say, I ****ing hate this whole mantra of "you have to take a QB #1", or that bullshit "Due to the new CBA it isn't risky to reach on a QB". Bitch, its risky to take a QB you don't think can start in the NFL, period.
Reid took McNabb with his first pick. Everything he did in the draft after that philosophy-wise came with him already having a QB. As for all these top 10 QBs never happening, you yourself pointed out plenty of teams that went after QB's the past few years.

I am not asking for Reid to take someone he doesn't think can start. I said several times that it if Reid thinks they are the best QB and think there is a chance they won't be there in the 2nd, they shouldn't **** around. We have the #1 pick. You don't need to have a backup plan because you have the first pick. Andy Reid came in and took his QB right away in PHI. All his drafting after that is not evidence of how he will handle a draft when his team doesn't have a QB. Same with Dorsey. They had Favre.

Speaking of hating draft ideas, I hate the one where you forget how important the QB position is and risk losing your(coaches) #1 option just because you feel there is a chance you can have your cake and eat it to.
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Old 01-29-2013, 12:51 AM   #24
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Based on what?
The Chiefs
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:13 AM   #25
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The best Qbs will be long gone before the 2nd round. It happens every year in the modern NFL because the position is so important. You use the number 1 pick overall to take a guy that you know will improve your team the most. Since we have no QB at all and it is the most important position then wouldn't we take a QB to improve the team the most? Just don't screw around trying to look smart and end up with Matt Blunden or the jokes on you.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:14 AM   #26
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Reid took McNabb with his first pick. Everything he did in the draft after that philosophy-wise came with him already having a QB. As for all these top 10 QBs never happening, you yourself pointed out plenty of teams that went after QB's the past few years.

I am not asking for Reid to take someone he doesn't think can start. I said several times that it if Reid thinks they are the best QB and think there is a chance they won't be there in the 2nd, they shouldn't **** around. We have the #1 pick. You don't need to have a backup plan because you have the first pick. Andy Reid came in and took his QB right away in PHI. All his drafting after that is not evidence of how he will handle a draft when his team doesn't have a QB. Same with Dorsey. They had Favre.

Speaking of hating draft ideas, I hate the one where you forget how important the QB position is and risk losing your(coaches) #1 option just because you feel there is a chance you can have your cake and eat it to.
Whoa Whoa Whoa, just because Geno might be the #1 QB does not mean he is the #1 option on the big board for the Chiefs. While the QB is the most important position on the team, that doesn't mean the 21 other positions are useless. You don't see phenomenal QBs winning Super Bowls without decent teams around them. You do, however, see Decent QBs win super bowls with Phenomenal teams around them.

The closest we ever got to being a perennial playoff team and repeating our early success of our super bowl era, was under Marty Ball. We didn't have our own QB then, but we did have one hell of a team built, even when our QB wasn't named Montana. And some of you probably couldn't name off 3 QBs under Marty not named Montana, without having to go and google search it.

Also, you're forgetting that the McNabb draft was similar to this draft, there was shit for QB's coming out in that draft and Andy didn't have the #1 selection back then. For all we knew, Tim Couch was his #1 guy lol. My oh my how things would have been different for him.

The point here is, if Andy Reid thinks his guy has a 95% chance of being there in the 2nd, he's not going to draft him #1. He'l draft someone or trade out of the spot, and then trade back in or sit on the pick in the 2nd round.

He has so many options and all you guys can seem to grasp is that he has to take a QB #1 if he thinks that QB won't be there in the second.

I want to use a really good example of smart drafting.

Cincy in the 2011 draft. In a draft full of QB's where only one of them had separated himself as the #1 draft pick (like Geno), Cincy waited for their QB to fall into the second round, and took AJ Green as their first round pick at #4, arguably one of the most complete and physically gifted receivers in the game, rivaling Megatron with those honors. And with their second round pick, #35 overall, the Bengals picked up Andy Dalton. Pretty good ****ing QB if you ask me. Unlike Locker, Gabbert, and Ponder, who were all taken after Newton and before Dalton.

They were also the only team to have two pro bowlers from the 1st and 2nd round, might even be the only team to have two pro bowlers from that entire draft.

The point is, we have more needs than just QB, and if Andy Reid thinks we can get our guy in the second, I'm behind it, and against this idiotic push for a #1 overall QB "just because", especially in a year where the QBs suck compared to most years. This draft class has nothing but career backups and maybe 3 guys with potential to really be a true starter in the NFL, and not a Gabbert type starter lol.
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:16 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by crossbow View Post
The best Qbs will be long gone before the 2nd round. It happens every year in the modern NFL because the position is so important. You use the number 1 pick overall to take a guy that you know will improve your team the most. Since we have no QB at all and it is the most important position then wouldn't we take a QB to improve the team the most? Just don't screw around trying to look smart and end up with Matt Blunden or the jokes on you.
Buts it is totally okay to draft the next Tim Couch, Matt Leinart, Colt McCoy, Brandon Weeden, Blaine Gabbert, Brady Quinn, etc.?

Its okay to bust on a 1st round QB, but its not okay to pass on a QB you aren't sure about?

That sounds backasswwards.

Cincy did just fine in 2011.
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:12 AM   #28
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Buts it is totally okay to draft the next Tim Couch, Matt Leinart, Colt McCoy, Brandon Weeden, Blaine Gabbert, Brady Quinn, etc.?

Its okay to bust on a 1st round QB, but its not okay to pass on a QB you aren't sure about?

That sounds backasswwards.

Cincy did just fine in 2011.
did you get catapulted here from New Jersey?
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:30 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exoter175 View Post
The best QB available is Geno, but that doesn't mean we are drating him. That doesn't mean that Andy Reid and the Chiefs are going to draft Geno #1.


I'm telling you, this is how this is going to work. If Andy Reid and the FO don't think Smith is worth the #1 pick overall, but believe he's the #1 QB fit for them, they aren't going to pull the trigger with the #1 overall. They'll wait for the 2nd round.

I know this might come as a gigantic surprise to you, but unless there is a "once in a generation" guy out there, each team is going to have their own individual rankings for players to fit within their team and only their team. They aren't going to JUST rank them best overall, and they aren't going to draft them best overall.

For all we know, the Chiefs right now could be sold on Bray as their guy. And do you know what they won't do with that #1 pick? Waste it on a QB they can get in the 2nd round, or waste it on the consensus #1 QB "just cause".

Sweet Jesus, its like 99.7% of you are on this "We have to draft the #1 QB with the #1 pick or the Chiefs are dead to me" kick.

Have a little faith in your team for christs sake. If it just so happens that Geno is the #1 guy FOR US, then there is absolutely NO QUESTION that we'll draft him #1 overall.

What you need to remember is that YOU and I do not make that call. The Chiefs do.
It's like the 500th time you caught your wife cheating on you, have a little faith...show me why I should have an inkling of faith. Add to that the fact your best friend who happens to be a supermodel really wants to get serious with ya, a once in a lifetime chance...what do you do in this hypothetical?
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Old 01-29-2013, 06:53 AM   #30
munkey munkey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KILLER_CLOWN View Post
Or we could simply resign our stud LT we have now and draft Geno #1, I know it's a new concept to most morons but I figured I would point that out for you.
I seriously don't get the cock slobbering over Geno...he's not a number one pick..period. No. QB of the draft? Maybe but I'll reserve that opinion until after the combine. Reid and Dorsey have already stated quite clearly their drafting philosophy so unless Geno blows everyone away at the combine he's not going be the #1 pick if the draft.
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