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Old 01-30-2013, 01:22 PM  
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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Myths and Truths about Libertarianism

"Libertarianism is the fastest growing political creed in America today. Before judging and evaluating libertarianism, it is vitally important to find out precisely what that doctrine is, and, more particularly, what it is not. It is especially important to clear up a number of misconceptions about libertarianism that are held by most people, and particularly by conservatives. In this essay I shall enumerate and critically analyze the most common myths that are held about libertarianism. When these are cleared away, people will then be able to discuss libertarianism free of egregious myths and misconceptions, and to deal with it as it should be on its very own merits or demerits." ~ Murray N. Rothbard. a founder of modern libertarianism


Just for starters
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:21 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notorious View Post
Take a test and find out if you are a good Libertarian:

http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi-bin/purity.cgi


I was in the middle ground. Scored 72.
18

16-30 points: You are a soft-core libertarian. With effort, you may harden and become pure.

I long for purity! Help me Lord Rothbard!
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:32 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by notorious View Post
Take a test and find out if you are a good Libertarian:

http://www.bcaplan.com/cgi-bin/purity.cgi


I was in the middle ground. Scored 72.
Two things I see right off the bat—they have a picture of Ayn Rand who was not a libertarian, spoke out against them and hated them and Milton Friedman who believes in central banking and moderate Keynesianism, both of which violate essentials of libertarians and is statism. The Rothbardians mock Friedman as a libertarian, even if he hold to some libertarian views. They respect him on some things though. That's why questions on many of these on line tests are flawed or not specific enough. Case in point are voucher question. That's big govt libertarianism. Actually it's considered conservative. I'd say a score of 72 is someone who leans libertarian without being one. There are self-proclaimed conservatives come up in that range.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:37 PM   #48
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BTW Rand was an Objectivist. However, many libertarians started out becoming one from her due to her books, particularly Atlas Shrugged.
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:37 PM   #49
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BEP, you're so knowledgeable! You use big words and talk about philosophies of famous people! You must be a doctorate of something.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:11 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
BEP, you're so knowledgeable! You use big words and talk about philosophies of famous people! You must be a doctorate of something.
Do not mock Rothbardians. Rothbardians!
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:12 PM   #51
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This thread is for libertarians—not micro-managing Progs. Now beat it. You are the least knowledgeable about what libertarianism is.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:13 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Two things I see right off the bat—they have a picture of Ayn Rand who was not a libertarian, spoke out against them and hated them and Milton Friedman who believes in central banking and moderate Keynesianism, both of which violate essentials of libertarians and is statism. The Rothbardians mock Friedman as a libertarian, even if he hold to some libertarian views. They respect him on some things though. That's why questions on many of these on line tests are flawed or not specific enough. Case in point are voucher question. That's big govt libertarianism. Actually it's considered conservative. I'd say a score of 72 is someone who leans libertarian without being one. There are self-proclaimed conservatives come up in that range.
Atlas Shrugged is a fun and interesting exercise in practical philosophy from a romantic standpoint. I wouldn't use it as my Bible and I'm disappointed when others do. I do find these Libertarian purity tests amusing.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:14 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
This thread is for libertarians—not micro-managing Progs. Now beat it. You are the least knowledgeable about what libertarianism is.
Did you say something?
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:16 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Atlas Shrugged is a fun and interesting exercise in practical philosophy from a romantic standpoint. I wouldn't use it as my Bible and I'm disappointed when others do. I do find these Libertarian purity tests amusing.
I don't consider them purity tests. I think it's a point of knowledge, integrity and mis-labeling. I think many lean that way, but miss the essential heart of it. The philosophy is actually about how much state one feels is needed. So I agree that Friedman had libertarian leanings but was not really one. Keynesianism, mild or excessive, just is contrary to it.

Anyhow, Ayn Rand was not a libertarian and didn't like them. She called herself an Objectivist—which is just another small govt philosophy.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:18 PM   #55
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I don't consider them purity tests. I think it's a point of integrity and mis-labeling. I think many lean that way, but miss the essential heart of it. The philosophy is actually about how much state one feels is needed.

Anyhow, Ayn Rand was not a libertarian and didn't like them. She called herself an Objectivist—which is just another small govt philosophy.
I am not really overly concerned with labels.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:19 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
This thread is for libertarians—not micro-managing Progs. Now beat it. You are the least knowledgeable about what libertarianism is.
You're not a libertarian, remember? And, a libertarian, or even a paleoconservative or paleozoic anarchist or a mesozoic traditionalist wouldn't restrict certain people from an open forum.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:21 PM   #57
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I am not really overly concerned with labels.
That's the thing though, it's not really about labels though is it? Not when you really examine it.
It's about how much state one believes in. If they support mini-anarchy then that just happens to be libertarian. I don't care what one wants to call it. It's just that when one uses a name for something it should communicate what that belief represents essentially. It's actually a point of logic to define terms for categories as a form of shorthand.

This reminds me of patteeu's fiscal conservativism thread. People love how it sounds or is chic, like libertarianism currently.

So you think Rand belonged in that test, when she denied being one and hated them? That's what I call putting in cubes into a group of triangles.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:24 PM   #58
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That's the thing though, it's not really about labels though is it? Not when you really examine it.
It's about how much state one believes in. If they support mini-anarchy then that just happens to be libertarian. I don't care what one wants to call it. It's just that when one uses a name for something it should communicate what that belief represents essentially.
Well, I am for the smallest possible State that still allows a functioning society. On every issue I lean towards individual empowerment with the exception that you aren't allowed to affect others (or society in general) in a substantially negative way.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:28 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post

So you think Rand belonged in that test, when she denied being one and hated them? That's what I call putting in cubes into a group of triangles.
Only a couple of posts ago you had a sliding scale which determined that a 94% libertarian was 'declining from libertarianism' and now you are married to a cube/triangle category.

You're confused. It's okay. No one really looks to you for guidance about this kind of stuff.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:37 PM   #60
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So you think Rand belonged in that test, when she denied being one and hated them? That's what I call putting in cubes into a group of triangles.
No, I didn't claim that Rand was/is a Libertarian. She applied a lot of labels to herself, and tended to overthink things a bit, sometimes getting tripped up in her own short sightedness. I think that arguments over what a "Libertarian" is are by their very nature somewhat unproductive. In a purely political sense the argument is no more productive then trying to determine what a Republican or Democrat is.
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