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Old 02-11-2013, 06:57 AM  
La literatura La literatura is offline
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Pope Benedict XVI to Retire

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/be...aratio_en.html

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Dear Brothers,

I have convoked you to this Consistory, not only for the three canonizations, but also to communicate to you a decision of great importance for the life of the Church. After having repeatedly examined my conscience before God, I have come to the certainty that my strengths, due to an advanced age, are no longer suited to an adequate exercise of the Petrine ministry. I am well aware that this ministry, due to its essential spiritual nature, must be carried out not only with words and deeds, but no less with prayer and suffering. However, in today’s world, subject to so many rapid changes and shaken by questions of deep relevance for the life of faith, in order to govern the barque of Saint Peter and proclaim the Gospel, both strength of mind and body are necessary, strength which in the last few months, has deteriorated in me to the extent that I have had to recognize my incapacity to adequately fulfill the ministry entrusted to me. For this reason, and well aware of the seriousness of this act, with full freedom I declare that I renounce the ministry of Bishop of Rome, Successor of Saint Peter, entrusted to me by the Cardinals on 19 April 2005, in such a way, that as from 28 February 2013, at 20:00 hours, the See of Rome, the See of Saint Peter, will be vacant and a Conclave to elect the new Supreme Pontiff will have to be convoked by those whose competence it is.

Dear Brothers, I thank you most sincerely for all the love and work with which you have supported me in my ministry and I ask pardon for all my defects. And now, let us entrust the Holy Church to the care of Our Supreme Pastor, Our Lord Jesus Christ, and implore his holy Mother Mary, so that she may assist the Cardinal Fathers with her maternal solicitude, in electing a new Supreme Pontiff. With regard to myself, I wish to also devotedly serve the Holy Church of God in the future through a life dedicated to prayer.

From the Vatican, 10 February 2013
BENEDICTUS PP XVI
On one hand, I am floored by the news. On the other hand, I am glad he is able to rest and enjoy retirement. I think this will set a healthy precedent.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:48 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
You're far more forgiving of an institution that PROTECTED, AIDED AND ABETTED KID-****ING than I will ever be.
It's not my role nor ability to forgive the Church.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:49 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
As an outside observer, what does this mean for the Catholic Church? The general perception of the church isn't exactly help up by sturdy oaken legs these days, and now a Pope steps down voluntarily for the first time in over 500 years.

What does this mean for the church going forward?
I don't think this is that big of a deal, really. Like I mentioned, I actually think this is a good precedent.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:52 AM   #78
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
I'm not saying no-one is responsible. Clearly, the priests who engaged in the sexual abuse of children are clearly responsible. The bishops who shuffled off them off are clearly responsible. The men who put together a rigid rule that shielded accusations from civil authorities are responsible.

You seem to have some insatiable need or desire to prosecute someone and want it to be JPII or B16. Maybe it would make you feel better about the end result, but it wouldn't be right or just.

I have no idea if its JPII or Ratzinger. It's probably one of those two, but it could be another guy a half-step below them that was handling this.

But if you think, this never filtered up through channels in an organization like this, and that responsibility stops at the bishop level, then you're hopelessly naive. The institutional failure was pretty clearly coordinated across the ENTIRE instutition. We'll never know the truth, of course. The Catholic Church has NO interest in letting it out. They just shuffle Cardinal Law and others around, protect them from the law, and hope that time will be on their side. When you're older than the governments that want to hold you responsible, it's easy to have a long-term perspective.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:53 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
I'm not saying no-one is responsible. Clearly, the priests who engaged in the sexual abuse of children are clearly responsible. The bishops who shuffled off them off are clearly responsible. The men who put together a rigid rule that shielded accusations from civil authorities are responsible.

You seem to have some insatiable need or desire to prosecute someone and want it to be JPII or B16. Maybe it would make you feel better about the end result, but it wouldn't be right or just.


So does Joe Paterno share any blame, yes or no? Or is his vilification also not "right or just"?
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:55 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
I don't think this is that big of a deal, really. Like I mentioned, I actually think this is a good precedent.
Are you implying that you think it would be a good idea for Popes to have term limits?

And like I said, as an outsider looking in, this looks bad for the church considering all the crushing accusations that have come down over the last decade. Maybe it's nothing, I don't know. I'm sure this isn't the first scandal to ever have rocked the organization.
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:56 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
The Church's direction just does not operate like a switch. We are talking about the most conservative, traditional organization in the world, whose sole purpose is to preserve and spread the memory and teachings of a man 2000 years ago. Their traditions evolved slowly, as did their internal regulations. In many cases, that is positive (at least from the Church's perspective). In this particular case, it was tragic.
The Church's direction didn't rewrite Catholic law to help exonerate prolific kiddie f**ker Marcial Maciel. B16 did. Allegedly.

Quote:
In the book’s most striking accusation, Barba, who holds a doctorate from Harvard in Latin American studies, writes that in 2001 Cardinal Ratzinger and his chief canon lawyer, Archbishop Tarcisio Bertone, modified the statute of limitations in church law regarding sex with minors “retroactively in favor of the Legionary founder, and injuring the human rights and legitimate interests of us, his victims.”
http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/ra...nt-book-argues
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:58 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
My bias hopes for Timothy Dolan.
any chance we ever get an american pope? a black pope?
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:59 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by Ebolapox View Post
any chance we ever get an american pope? a black pope?
Or, dare to dream, a black American pope??
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:02 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
Or, dare to dream, a black American pope??
But would they still send up the white smoke after he was recognized as Pope?

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Old 02-11-2013, 12:08 PM   #85
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
I have no idea if its JPII or Ratzinger. It's probably one of those two, but it could be another guy a half-step below them that was handling this.

But if you think, this never filtered up through channels in an organization like this, and that responsibility stops at the bishop level, then you're hopelessly naive. The institutional failure was pretty clearly coordinated across the ENTIRE instutition. We'll never know the truth, of course. The Catholic Church has NO interest in letting it out. They just shuffle Cardinal Law and others around, protect them from the law, and hope that time will be on their side. When you're older than the governments that want to hold you responsible, it's easy to have a long-term perspective.
Yes, we know that it did filter up to John Paul II. That is why I said he can be criticized for not acting quickly enough and proactively enough. In fact, in some cases, he was far too hands off. This is a significant issue for the Church as it contemplates the legacy and sainthood of JPII.

Otherwise, you are saying some of the same things I am saying. This was an institutional failure of epic proportions, shuffling around, long-term perspective, etc.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:09 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Amnorix View Post
So does Joe Paterno share any blame, yes or no? Or is his vilification also not "right or just"?
Yes, he deserves blame for not reporting.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:10 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
The Church's direction didn't rewrite Catholic law to help exonerate prolific kiddie f**ker Marcial Maciel. B16 did. Allegedly.



http://ncronline.org/news/vatican/ra...nt-book-argues
That is inaccurate from all that I know, which is that B16 pursued Marciel, and wrt the statute of limitations, actually expanded them.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:11 PM   #88
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Originally Posted by Ebolapox View Post
any chance we ever get an american pope? a black pope?
I think there's a better chance for a black pope right now than an American. I hope in my lifetime there is an American pope.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:12 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Cave Johnson View Post
Or, dare to dream, a black American pope??
I'm not sure if there are any Cardinals or bishops right now that are African-Americans.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:17 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by dirk digler View Post
He was Archbishop of Munich for 5 years and then was in charge of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, which was also responsible for investigating sexual abuse cases.

You should watch the HBO documentary that just came out called Mea Maxima Culpa: Silence in the House of God
NO SHIT! This guy was point man for protecting pedo priests for a long time. He knows all the dirt. He's getting out before the shit hits the fan.

Here's a review of the documentary from LA Times:
http://www.latimes.com/entertainment...,6297138.story
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