Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Lounge > D.C.

View Poll Results: Do you support the outright ban of "assault" rifles?
Yes 8 6.35%
No 118 93.65%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-14-2013, 04:52 PM  
pr_capone pr_capone is offline
** *- -- -- *
 
pr_capone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Aguadilla
Casino cash: $7598
Do you support the outright ban of "assault" rifles?

Simple...

yes or no.

This thread brought to you by a comment in DC stating we would be surprised by how few people in DC would support the ban. Figured we might as well get numbers.
Posts: 18,386
pr_capone is obviously part of the inner Circle.pr_capone is obviously part of the inner Circle.pr_capone is obviously part of the inner Circle.pr_capone is obviously part of the inner Circle.pr_capone is obviously part of the inner Circle.pr_capone is obviously part of the inner Circle.pr_capone is obviously part of the inner Circle.pr_capone is obviously part of the inner Circle.pr_capone is obviously part of the inner Circle.pr_capone is obviously part of the inner Circle.pr_capone is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 11:34 PM   #301
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
Back again.
 
Aries Walker's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Aspen Hill, MD
Casino cash: $9740
An assault weapons ban is not going to warp us into 1939 Italy. The best I can figure you're either making a gigantic leap in logic from me being in support of the ban, to me being in support of the complete disarmament of American citizens for purposes of government control, or you're trying to flagrantly demonize anyone who disagrees with you because you really don't know how to present an argument or try to validate a point.

In case it's the latter, the first thing you should do is to go read up on what a straw man argument is.
Posts: 4,896
Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 11:41 PM   #302
Frazod Frazod is offline
Banned
 
Frazod's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: my own personal pig hell
Casino cash: $5050
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
An assault weapons ban is not going to warp us into 1939 Italy. The best I can figure you're either making a gigantic leap in logic from me being in support of the ban, to me being in support of the complete disarmament of American citizens for purposes of government control, or you're trying to flagrantly demonize anyone who disagrees with you because you really don't know how to present an argument or try to validate a point.

In case it's the latter, the first thing you should do is to go read up on what a straw man argument is.
A "yes" vote in this poll tells me everything about you that I need to know.
Posts: 91,125
Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2013, 11:42 PM   #303
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $24667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
An assault weapons ban is not going to warp us into 1939 Italy. The best I can figure you're either making a gigantic leap in logic from me being in support of the ban, to me being in support of the complete disarmament of American citizens for purposes of government control, or you're trying to flagrantly demonize anyone who disagrees with you because you really don't know how to present an argument or try to validate a point.

In case it's the latter, the first thing you should do is to go read up on what a straw man argument is.
Perhaps you need to look it up also. Not trying to be a douche, but the real straw man here is the term 'assault weapon.' Assault weapons (real ones) have already been banned for more than 25 years....

They are just playing games with terms, to fool stupid people and those who know nothing about guns...

Take 10 minutes and practice what you preach.....and kill the straw man BS

__________________
-------------------
(Your company name here)
Posts: 16,548
Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 12:02 AM   #304
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
Back again.
 
Aries Walker's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Aspen Hill, MD
Casino cash: $9740
Quote:
Originally Posted by frazod View Post
A "yes" vote in this poll tells me everything about you that I need to know.
Okay, then that's it, then. Best of luck to you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Perhaps you need to look it up also. Not trying to be a douche, but the real straw man here is the term 'assault weapon.' Assault weapons (real ones) have already been banned for more than 25 years....

They are just playing games with terms, to fool stupid people and those who know nothing about guns...

Take 10 minutes and practice what you preach.....and kill the straw man BS

Except that 'assault weapon' is a vague term with no specific meaning; peopel will use it in whichever definition supports their argument the best. Personally, I'd rather they use a specific term (like 'semi-automatic rifle') for the proposal, but they - like all politicians, it seems - try to throw in some emotionally charged terms. Such is politics, but regardless of what they call the bill, I'd still vote the same way here.

All of that aside, that's not the point. I was addressing what he was specifically saying - that is, that because I (by voting) said that I support the assault weapons ban, I also supported Chicago-style gun control methods as they move the nation toward becoming a Fascist state, and he then started to argue that point. That is classic strawman - arguing against a position that the other person had not taken - and so I took the moment to point it out.

It also qualifies as a pretty bold case of jumping to conclusions, but baby steps.
Posts: 4,896
Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 12:08 AM   #305
Pawnmower Pawnmower is offline
MVP
 
Pawnmower's Avatar
 

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Northern California
Casino cash: $24667
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
Okay, then that's it, then. Best of luck to you.


Except that 'assault weapon' is a vague term with no specific meaning; peopel will use it in whichever definition supports their argument the best. Personally, I'd rather they use a specific term (like 'semi-automatic rifle') for the proposal, but they - like all politicians, it seems - try to throw in some emotionally charged terms. Such is politics, but regardless of what they call the bill, I'd still vote the same way here.

All of that aside, that's not the point. I was addressing what he was specifically saying - that is, that because I (by voting) said that I support the assault weapons ban, I also supported Chicago-style gun control methods as they move the nation toward becoming a Fascist state, and he then started to argue that point. That is classic strawman - arguing against a position that the other person had not taken - and so I took the moment to point it out.

So you support attacking a straw man ( a made up, vague term....which can be manipulated to twist the meaning)....


I'm taking a moment to point out that anyone who supports an 'assault weapon ban' (just as you admit) supports a meaningless, bullshit strawman argument.

'Assault weapon' is the straw man, and the idiots who attack the straw man, are attacking nothing but an illusion and meaningless term made up by the very dumb asses attacking it.

get it now?
__________________
-------------------
(Your company name here)
Posts: 16,548
Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.Pawnmower is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 12:08 AM   #306
Frazod Frazod is offline
Banned
 
Frazod's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: my own personal pig hell
Casino cash: $5050
Actually wants all semi-automatic rifles banned. Actually admits it.

Adolph has definitely come goose-stepping out of the closet.
Posts: 91,125
Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.Frazod < Tried to steal Andy's chili fries.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 12:44 AM   #307
A Salt Weapon A Salt Weapon is offline
Veteran
 
A Salt Weapon's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Alaska
Casino cash: $7462
Why do you guys keep calling me a strawman? Why are you trying to ban me?
Jeez.
Posted via Mobile Device
Posts: 1,801
A Salt Weapon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.A Salt Weapon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.A Salt Weapon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.A Salt Weapon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.A Salt Weapon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.A Salt Weapon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.A Salt Weapon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.A Salt Weapon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.A Salt Weapon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.A Salt Weapon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.A Salt Weapon is blessed with 50/50 Hindsight.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 12:48 AM   #308
Aries Walker Aries Walker is offline
Back again.
 
Aries Walker's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Aspen Hill, MD
Casino cash: $9740
First, Frazod.

Again, that's not what I said. I said I support that bill, and would rather they use a specific term to describe it. You also don't seem to know the difference between Nazis and Fascists. I am now convinced that you're just blindly lashing out at anyone who disagrees with you, and your methods haven't evolved past the schoolyard name-calling, so I'm moving on.

Now, Pawnmower.

Straw Man has a specific definition in the field of logical argument (look it up in any dictionary or encyclopedia). 'Assault weapon' does not have a specific meaning (look it up also, in any dictionary or encyclopedia), and is an emotionally charged term, so it's prone to be used by people for whatever their own purposes are. Hence, I'd rather not use the term.

I said I support THE Assault Weapons Ban - that is, the one that's currently in Congress. You tried to turn that into that I support AN assault weapons ban, then stating that that's a meaningless illusionary term, even though you made it a meaningless illusion by making it indefinite by using 'AN'.

I agree with you, in that if I stood upon a soapbox and yelled, "I support banning all assault weapons!", that that would be ridiculous, and a meaningless illusion for exactly the reasons you said - that it would be playing games with terminology in order to fool people.

However, the Assault Weapons Ban, being a proposal in Congress, is very specific, and so doesn't have that problem. Like I said, I'd rather it not be called that, but it is.

It's late and I have to work in the morning. Good night.
Posts: 4,896
Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.Aries Walker is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 05:29 AM   #309
patteeu patteeu is offline
The 23rd Pillar
 
patteeu's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2002
Casino cash: $5000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
An assault weapons ban is not going to warp us into 1939 Italy. The best I can figure you're either making a gigantic leap in logic from me being in support of the ban, to me being in support of the complete disarmament of American citizens for purposes of government control, or you're trying to flagrantly demonize anyone who disagrees with you because you really don't know how to present an argument or try to validate a point.

In case it's the latter, the first thing you should do is to go read up on what a straw man argument is.
Don't you think an assault weapon ban is kind of a strawman-like response to gun violence?

Edit: I see that you and pawn have touched on a similar discussion, but I'm suggesting that the specific assault weapon ban is a strawman because it targets weapons that aren't really related to the purported problem not because of vague terminology. And btw, supporting a ban on all semi-automatic weapons is shockingly fringe.
__________________


"I'll see you guys in New York." ISIS Caliph Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi to US military personnel upon his release from US custody at Camp Bucca in Iraq during Obama's first year in office.

Last edited by patteeu; 02-19-2013 at 05:35 AM..
Posts: 75,744
patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.patteeu is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 03:54 PM   #310
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $22351
Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
Is there a law against comprehensiveness or funding levels for private research?
Private research isn't going to be as comprehensive, it's going to be more intensive to its interests, typically.
__________________
Posts: 46,716
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 03:55 PM   #311
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $22351
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockymtnchief View Post
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/crimestats

Here's a good place to start.
It is.
__________________
Posts: 46,716
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 03:57 PM   #312
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $22351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
This is where your argument falls apart...

There are only about 400 deaths via rifle every year...

MAYBE 50-75 or less are from Semi-Auto rifles with a high capacity magazine....

So by going from 30 to 15 rounds in each magazine, how much do you think that will reduce those 50 deaths? 1? 2?

You are seriously talking about taking away the liberties of 300 million Americans, infringing or taking away their basic instrument (defensive semi-auto rifle) to prevent MAYBE a handful of deaths....

And the sad truth is that criminals and evil people and the insane maniacs will just find a way around these laws...

So in essence, a law like this ON PAPER maybe saves a handful of lives per year at most, and the cold reality is that it doesn't even do THAT. All it does is reduce the law abiding man's defensive weapon into a lesser piece of equipment.
Mass shootings using assault weapons tend to be deadlier. It should be much more difficult to obtain them, if legal at all (I would prefer an outright ban, personally).

Those statistics you put up, by the way, tower over the rest of Western civilization. The fact that America is the standard bearer in gun violence is due directly to our gun culture.
__________________
Posts: 46,716
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 04:02 PM   #313
Fish Fish is online now
Missing Dick Curl
 
Fish's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2005
Casino cash: $10110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Mass shootings using assault weapons tend to be deadlier. It should be much more difficult to obtain them, if legal at all (I would prefer an outright ban, personally).

Those statistics you put up, by the way, tower over the rest of Western civilization. The fact that America is the standard bearer in gun violence is due directly to our gun culture.
"Deadlier"? Could you define what you mean by that?
__________________
Posts: 26,127
Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.Fish is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 04:06 PM   #314
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $22351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pawnmower View Post
Direk,

Also...here is the other thing that I don't know if you quite realize...Just as with abortion, you have extremists on both sides of this issue, so:

People like you who insist on reducing magazines or taking away semi-auto weapons (and I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt, and belive that you do have good intentions) are actually doing an extreme dis-service to 'your side' by not acknowledging that semi-auto rifles deaths are really not a problem overall...by not acknowledging that a semi-auto weapon is NOT an assault rifle.....you help the NRA.

By insisting on meaningless bans, and reductions of magazine size etc..that actually do not do anything to reduce crime....all you are doing is alienating reasonable people (like myself) that may be inclined to support other reasonable measures (like universal background checks etc.....)..You turn me away because I can see that none of the other proposals make sense.

For example, say I as a gun owner agreed to limit magazine capacity to 10....What happens when the next newtown occurs ? Do you then reduce to 5? 1? Then what happens when the next one occurs? Ban Semi autos outright? Then what happens when the next one occurs?

There is no 'end game' for this type of argument....Why? Simple:

MAKING MAGAZINE CAPACITY 10 versus 30 WILL NOT REDUCE THESE INCIDENTS

Therefore simply agreeing to it would be insane, knowing that another incident WILL happen...and further (ineffective) measures will be taken... costing lawful men their liberty while having ZERO impact on crime.
First of all, I should thank you for giving me the benefit of the doubt on intentions. That's more than most on this forum will do. So, props.

Second of all, I have no doubt that the rise of gun control advocacy from folks like me over the past few months has done the NRA huge favors. Always seems to -- huge shootings are good for gun business, historically. But alas, not a shit is given by yours truly.

I believe that comprehensive gun control on a federal level would no doubt have major effects on reducing crime. I support the tracking of every gun in the country, I support a flat ban on assault weapons (a stronger one than the 90s one), aggressively-enforced limits on magazine size, intensive efforts by the CDC in changing inner city culture where so many of these deaths occur, on and on and on...

If that makes you willing to cut your nose off to spite your face re: universal background checks, then that's on you. I don't have my political opinions dictated to me by what somebody else believes. If you do, that's on you. That's not how I would do business, but que sera sera.

If the threat of future, hypothetical legislation that is extreme spooks you out of supporting current actual legislation that is mainstream, again, that's on you. But that argument (the slippery slope hilarity) can literally be made on every law ever passed. So I tend to not find it terribly convincing.
__________________
Posts: 46,716
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2013, 04:10 PM   #315
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
Black for Palestine
 
Direckshun's Avatar
 

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Springpatch
Casino cash: $22351
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aries Walker View Post
An assault weapons ban is not going to warp us into 1939 Italy. The best I can figure you're either making a gigantic leap in logic from me being in support of the ban, to me being in support of the complete disarmament of American citizens for purposes of government control, or you're trying to flagrantly demonize anyone who disagrees with you because you really don't know how to present an argument or try to validate a point.

In case it's the latter, the first thing you should do is to go read up on what a straw man argument is.
Well said.

It's either an intentionally disingenuous straw man, or rank paranoia.
__________________
Posts: 46,716
Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.Direckshun is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:21 PM.


This is a test for a client's site.
A new website that shows member-created construction site listings that need fill or have excess fill. Dirt Monkey @ https://DirtMonkey.net
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.