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View Poll Results: Do you support the outright ban of "assault" rifles?
Yes 8 6.35%
No 118 93.65%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-14-2013, 03:52 PM  
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Do you support the outright ban of "assault" rifles?

Simple...

yes or no.

This thread brought to you by a comment in DC stating we would be surprised by how few people in DC would support the ban. Figured we might as well get numbers.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:54 PM   #361
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Does anybody here not support the passage of traffic safety laws? :wtf:
Is it urgent? Is it a bigger problem than assault weapons?
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:55 PM   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
Now... wait.

Why do you get to do that?

Why do you get to pronounce that slippery-sloping to grenade launchers is invalid, but slippery-sloping to a repeal of the 2nd amendment is fair game?

I don't recall, listo, if you've leveled "slippery slope" arguments at me before when discussing assault weapons, and if you haven't, my bad.

But lord knows I face them by the dozen in these threads by gun rights advocates who believe an assault weapons ban is the stone that starts the avalanche towards a repeal of the 2nd amendment. When I argue that it could just as easily be applied the other way around, that expanding gun rights could lead to a free-for-all that could easily include grenade launchers... that's nonsense? Why?

I'm probably not talking to you when I say this, listo, but this is why slippery slope arguments are largely nonsense.

Actually, this whole issue is a prime example of the slippery slope in action. Assault weapons are already illegal. Now that we have done that people are lying in an attempt to rebrand hunting rifles as assault weapons so that we can ban those two. After that my guess is handguns will be next and then shotguns and then it is game set match.

We are ALREADY ON the slippery slope.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:57 PM   #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
The guns that were targeted by the Assault Weapons Ban in 1994.

Edit: Sorry, I misread that. I thought you posted "assault weapon." (Byproduct of doing a 1-on-8 type argument.) Nonetheless, I would classify assault weapons as the '94 law did.

No biggie. I'm going to omit "grenade launcher" because it's kind of stupid and I don't think we are talking about our 'Murrican right to launch grenades, Goddamit but which of these characteristics makes a rifle so dangerous:
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:00 PM   #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
So do you have an answer to my question?
You could argue that the they make some degree of difference in making the shooter's job easier. I personally don't know how much of a difference they make, but as I've argued before in gun control threads, you draw a line somewhere with gun control, and any line you draw is going to have some stuff on both sides of it that seems to be arbitrarily included/excluded.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:01 PM   #365
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Originally Posted by Brock View Post
It's because erring on the side of liberty is always the right thing to do.
I don't disagree.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:02 PM   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock View Post
Is it urgent? Is it a bigger problem than assault weapons?
The beauty of it is, I don't have to rank them. We can work on them both simultaneously.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:03 PM   #367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raiderhader View Post
Actually, this whole issue is a prime example of the slippery slope in action. Assault weapons are already illegal. Now that we have done that people are lying in an attempt to rebrand hunting rifles as assault weapons so that we can ban those two. After that my guess is handguns will be next and then shotguns and then it is game set match.

We are ALREADY ON the slippery slope.
We've also dramatically expanded gun rights over the past decade. Why is it so unreasonable to assume that this will surely open the door to grenade launcher ownership?
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:04 PM   #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
No biggie. I'm going to omit "grenade launcher" because it's kind of stupid and I don't think we are talking about our 'Murrican right to launch grenades, Goddamit but which of these characteristics makes a rifle so dangerous:
*scratches head*

I've already responded to this, did I not?
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:11 PM   #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You could argue that the they make some degree of difference in making the shooter's job easier. I personally don't know how much of a difference they make, but as I've argued before in gun control threads, you draw a line somewhere with gun control, and any line you draw is going to have some stuff on both sides of it that seems to be arbitrarily included/excluded.
Well, personally, a pistol grip really screws up my aim with a rifle. Everyone that I have talked to about it tells me the same thing. That a pistol grip on a rifle is a stupid idea, because it ****s your aim. A folding stock allows you to move a rifle in more confined spaces when not shooting. A bayonet mount turns your rifle into a very short spear for hand-to-hand fighting. A flash suppressor blocks the bright light of a muzzle flash. None of that really makes the shooter's job easier in a mass murder situation.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:12 PM   #370
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
*scratches head*

I've already responded to this, did I not?
No, you hadn't when I posted it. You tried to avoid answering it with a goofy "slippery slope" comment.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:13 PM   #371
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Well, personally, a pistol grip really screws up my aim with a rifle. Everyone that I have talked to about it tells me the same thing. That a pistol grip on a rifle is a stupid idea, because it ****s your aim. A folding stock allows you to move a rifle in more confined spaces when not shooting. A bayonet mount turns your rifle into a very short spear for hand-to-hand fighting. A flash suppressor blocks the bright light of a muzzle flash. None of that really makes the shooter's job easier in a mass murder situation.
That's fair.

I don't really have a dog in that fight.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:13 PM   #372
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:13 PM   #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
No, you hadn't when I posted it. You tried to avoid answering it with a goofy "slippery slope" comment.
You could give me a little more than 10 minutes next time.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:17 PM   #374
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You could give me a little more than 10 minutes next time.
You should have told me that you had to take a shit.


Seriously, though...grenade launchers (and grenades) are already controlled with very strict legislation. Here's a decent article about it:

One argument that seems to come up when talking about gun control and assault weapons bans, is that itís a slippery slope. ďWhatís next?Ē they will ask, ďAre we going to make buying rocket launchers and grenades legal?Ē

That argument doesnít really work, since itís already perfectly legal for a civilian to purchase those items.

The National Firearms Act classifies firearms into several categories.

Machine Guns Ė Any weapon that fires more than one round when the trigger is pulled
Short Barreled Rifles Ė Any rifle with a barrel shorter than 14″ or an overall length of less than 26″
Short Barreled Shotgun Ė Any shotgun with a barrel shorter than 16″
Silencer Ė Any portable device used to muffle the sound of a gunshot
Destructive Device Ė Explosive and chemical weapons, or anything with a bore larger than .50, excluding those with a sporting use, such as shotguns or hunting rifles.
Any Other Weapon Ė Disguised weapons, Pen guns, guns designed to fire from concealment, smooth bore pistols. Essentially a catch all for anything that isnít a pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle that doesnít fit the categories above.

These are called Title II weapons. Many people think that itís illegal to own these, but itís not. First, you have to make sure that you can legally own one in the area that you live in. If you want an RPG, you need to make sure that you are able to own and store explosives. You may still be able to buy your grenade launcher, but you may be prevented from owning anything other than bean bags and flares.

Then, you have to find a place that is selling them. There arenít that many on the market for civilian purchase, so good luck. Once you find a place, you have to go through a more thorough background check that what you would normally find for just purchasing a pistol. This may take some time, but once you are cleared, and it is registered in your name, you are free to take your Destructive Device home. After, of course, you pay the fees for the registration and background checks and a $200 tax.

Note, that is for each destructive device. That means that the launchers is one device, and each grenade is another. So if you if you want to buy an Milkor MGL MK1, youíll have to go through this process and pay the tax for the weapon itself, and then once again for each grenade. So if you want to fill the cylinder, itís going to cost you $1,400 in taxes alone. The launcher itself is going to be between $2,000 to $3000, depending on which one you want. The ammunition though? If you want anything more than flares, itís going to be at least $300 per 40mm round, and thatís before taxes and fees. Shooting a destructive device is an expensive hobby.

Now, I should add that if you donít buy any explosive rounds, and stick with flares and the like, you may be able to purchase a grenade launcher without all the hassle of it being a Title II Destructive device. There are exceptions made for signaling devices, and other such non weapon devices. I think you are limited to no bigger than 37mm though, and you canít own any rounds intended to be used as a weapon or it goes from being a signaling device to being a destructive device.

This means that if you buy one 37mm grenade launcher with no intention of shooting explosive rounds from it, so donít have it registered with the BATFE as a type II destructive device, but then buy another, pay the taxes and register it, and buy explosive ammo, even though you have the intent to only fire it from the registered device, you have just made your earlier purchase into an unregistered destructive device, even though it was legally purchased previously.

http://xdind.com/yes-you-can-legally...nade-launcher/
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:18 PM   #375
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
That's fair.

I don't really have a dog in that fight.
Other than the grenade launcher part, that's the legal definition of "assault rifle" you cited.
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