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View Poll Results: Do you support the outright ban of "assault" rifles?
Yes 8 6.35%
No 118 93.65%
Voters: 126. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-14-2013, 03:52 PM  
pr_capone pr_capone is offline
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Do you support the outright ban of "assault" rifles?

Simple...

yes or no.

This thread brought to you by a comment in DC stating we would be surprised by how few people in DC would support the ban. Figured we might as well get numbers.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:37 PM   #391
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Saying that, I'll ask this - Is my viewpoint to simplistic? Is there some critical point I'm not factoring in before I say such statements?
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:44 PM   #392
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Why? Why is that your beef? The gun is but a tool, murder comes solely from the user.

A .22 bolt action rifle or a .50 Barret sniper rifle - neither do damage without someone enabling them to do damage.
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Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
Saying that, I'll ask this - Is my viewpoint to simplistic? Is there some critical point I'm not factoring in before I say such statements?
I don't know if I'd call it simplistic, but I think you're missing out on the big picture. But here's how I've broken it down a few times on this forum:

In order for violence to occur, you need two things: a motive to commit it and the opportunity to commit it.

What guns do is swing that door of opportunity wide, wide open. Pulling a trigger is far easier than almost any other kind of violence I can think of (compare it to one of the fan favorites on this forum, hammers). Its capacity to create dramatic casualties is ridiculously disproportionate to how easy it is to do. It creates a vast opportunity for violence and death.

As such, there needs to be aggressive screening and enforcement of gun control, as well as a flat ban on the types of guns that take this already-pretty-simple ability to kill to even more ridiculous heights.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:37 PM   #393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I favor an assault weapons ban because the rate of gun violence in this country is a global embarrassment. We claim to be the light of the west while urban warfare wipes out our inner cities and one crazy asshole with no tether to reality can wipe out the lives of tens of our brothers and sisters at a time simply because he wants.

This is a disease that spreads through this country through our gun culture. Easy access, and few barriers. That's the difference between us and the rest of the west, and that's why our gun death total has left the rest of the west in the dust. There's no sensible reason for it.

I suggest lots of things that need to be done, largely off the backs of what police groups support and what study after study has confirmed: more guns for everybody leads to more gun violence for everybody. The overwhelming majority of fighting gun violence is through means that have nothing to do with an AWB -- since the overwhelming majority of gun violence is not mass shooting.

But the opportunities that these weapons of war provide to deranged lunatics are too great. Tough obstacles need to be erected so that either (a.) nobody can have access to these things, or (b.) those who can must pass through significant barriers to legally obtain them. Make them illegal, and invest in fighting illegal arms dealers that arise in the ban's wake. Make mass shootings harder to pull off, and make mass shootings less deadly.
Assault rifles are not driving gun violence, their overall effect is negligible. Assault rifles aren't weapons of war, warriors use much more effective weapons. If you care about our society, fight for meaningful legislation. Don't accept the bullshit that the politicians are trying to feed you.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:00 AM   #394
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Assault rifles are not driving gun violence, their overall effect is negligible. Assault rifles aren't weapons of war, warriors use much more effective weapons. If you care about our society, fight for meaningful legislation. Don't accept the bullshit that the politicians are trying to feed you.
You may have already answered this question, but what is?
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:03 AM   #395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I don't know if I'd call it simplistic, but I think you're missing out on the big picture. But here's how I've broken it down a few times on this forum:

In order for violence to occur, you need two things: a motive to commit it and the opportunity to commit it.

What guns do is swing that door of opportunity wide, wide open. Pulling a trigger is far easier than almost any other kind of violence I can think of (compare it to one of the fan favorites on this forum, hammers). Its capacity to create dramatic casualties is ridiculously disproportionate to how easy it is to do. It creates a vast opportunity for violence and death.As such, there needs to be aggressive screening and enforcement of gun control, as well as a flat ban on the types of guns that take this already-pretty-simple ability to kill to even more ridiculous heights.
And yet there were there 496 Blunt object homicides and only 323 Rifle homicides in 2011. And we don't even know how many of those rifle homicides were with Semi Automatics, Lever or Bolt action.

These are the stats that make your arguments look so foolish and lock step with the Liberal talking points.

Firearm ownership is going through the roof and since 2007 each of the Homicide categories have decreased with the exception of Explosives.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:31 AM   #396
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Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
You may have already answered this question, but what is?
I think it is, in part, a culture of dehumanization. I don't mean video games, rap music or cool looking guns. I mean that in a high density population center human beings can't process the sheer number of people that they interact with on a daily basis. You stop looking at other people as individuals when you encounter hundreds of them every day. You perceive them as obstacles or part of the environment. I think that there are going to be other factors as well. The reliance on, and overabundance of, psychotropic medicines as opposed to therapy is troubling to me. The collapse of marriage leaving single parents to raise children in harsh economic climates plays a part in juvenile delinquency, leaving an aging population of maladjusted "adults" that lack the skills or motivation to take leadership roles in our society. The extension of adolescence now well into the 20's (typically for economic reasons) creates a culture of irresponsibility among those who should be our vibrant core of new leadership. It's a bit complicated.
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Old 02-20-2013, 04:38 AM   #397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
You're welcome to sell that message to the masses and see how many reasonable people think that makes two licks of sense.

Shit like that probably plays well in the bubble. Everywhere else, that wild west bullshit polls roughly two hairs better than the plague.
I'm not a politician running for office, so I could give two shits how it polls.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:53 AM   #398
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I defined it with the dictionary. I'm not going to chew your food for you.
And I've pointed out that the definition you want to deflect with is insufficient when you want to go screwing with the Constitutional rights of 300 some million law abiding citizens.
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Old 02-20-2013, 05:55 AM   #399
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I favor an assault weapons ban because the rate of gun violence in this country is a global embarrassment.
No you don't. If you wanted to do something about gun violence you and the rest of your party would be doing something substantial about it. Instead you're just trying to "take what you can get".
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Old 02-20-2013, 06:17 AM   #400
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Originally Posted by Radar Chief View Post
No you don't. If you wanted to do something about gun violence you and the rest of your party would be doing something substantial about it. Instead you're just trying to "take what you can get".
They are scared of voter fallout, which completely contradicts the polls.


What is going on here?
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:07 AM   #401
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Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
And the right to bear arms is already controlled by the Constitution.

So let it be known that listopencil and Direckshun agree: slippery slope arguments are almost entirely bullshit.
There is nothing inherently wrong with slippery slope arguments. There are just poor applications. To the extent that you're criticizing slippery slope arguments as a class, I disagree. If you're saying that most people misuse them, that's at least arguable.

We have lots of experience watching slippery slopes in action.
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Old 02-20-2013, 07:10 AM   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
I favor an assault weapons ban because the rate of gun violence in this country is a global embarrassment. We claim to be the light of the west while urban warfare wipes out our inner cities and one crazy asshole with no tether to reality can wipe out the lives of tens of our brothers and sisters at a time simply because he wants.

This is a disease that spreads through this country through our gun culture. Easy access, and few barriers. That's the difference between us and the rest of the west, and that's why our gun death total has left the rest of the west in the dust. There's no sensible reason for it.

I suggest lots of things that need to be done, largely off the backs of what police groups support and what study after study has confirmed: more guns for everybody leads to more gun violence for everybody. The overwhelming majority of fighting gun violence is through means that have nothing to do with an AWB -- since the overwhelming majority of gun violence is not mass shooting.

But the opportunities that these weapons of war provide to deranged lunatics are too great. Tough obstacles need to be erected so that either (a.) nobody can have access to these things, or (b.) those who can must pass through significant barriers to legally obtain them. Make them illegal, and invest in fighting illegal arms dealers that arise in the ban's wake. Make mass shootings harder to pull off, and make mass shootings less deadly.
These aren't weapons of war. They're weapons of sport shooting, self-protection, and hunting.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:05 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
Assault rifles are not driving gun violence, their overall effect is negligible.
Their effect on mass shootings are real.

But like I said, I consider mass shootings a problem. You apparently don't?
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:07 AM   #404
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Originally Posted by Raiderhader View Post
I'm not a politician running for office, so I could give two shits how it polls.
Or how extreme your views are.
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Old 02-20-2013, 08:08 AM   #405
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And I've pointed out that the definition you want to deflect with is insufficient when you want to go screwing with the Constitutional rights of 300 some million law abiding citizens.
Because?
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