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Old 02-20-2013, 07:44 AM  
Mr_Tomahawk Mr_Tomahawk is offline
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***OFFICIAL KU VS. OSU GAME THREAD***

Let's do this...

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Old 02-20-2013, 11:00 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
Uh... yes he has.
Withey is much more important to KU's success than McLemore. Does that make him a "better player?" Hard to answer that.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:02 AM   #32
Prison Bitch Prison Bitch is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
Uh... yes he has.
Not if you go by plus/minus. Travis leads the team at 13.2, and Withey/Ben are close at 12.3/12.2.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/sta...ason=2012-2013
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:06 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Reerun_KC View Post
OSU only favored by 1?

JFC didnt these asshats watch the TCU game or the OU game? OSU is a much better team than either one of those and both of those teams whipped our ass all day long..

OSU can win this game by 8-10.
KenPom has OSU winning by 1. Vegas lines usually correspond quite closely to those predictions.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:12 AM   #34
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If KU plays with the renewed swagger they found last week it will be a fun game.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:17 AM   #35
saphojunkie saphojunkie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Not if you go by plus/minus. Travis leads the team at 13.2, and Withey/Ben are close at 12.3/12.2.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/sta...ason=2012-2013

Plus/minus might be the worst statistic in sports. All it factors in is whether or not a player was on the floor. Not A) who was on the floor with him, B) Who was on the floor opposite him, C) what he did on the floor.

I could have a shitty plus/minus because my teammates can't guard Markel Brown. Then both Markel Brown and I sit on the bench. Now my team starts clicking. Then I come back in with Markel Brown and we're outscored. Yay, I got a shitty plus/minus.

Ben McLemore has been the best player on this team, the most complete, the biggest playmaker, the ONLY go-to scorer and a clutch defender.

Withey is by far the best shot defender, releford the best man defender, Young has outclassed the entire league in hustle plays.

But no one has done what McLemore has done. Come on, people, let's not get silly here.

His third game in uniform he dropped 25 points. He isn't as consistent as the four seniors, but he has been the best player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_Connection View Post
Withey is much more important to KU's success than McLemore. Does that make him a "better player?" Hard to answer that.
That's a good question. Is most valuable the same as most outstanding or "best"? You could make an argument there. I think I might still put McLemore as more valuable than withey. If withey comes out, you can do things to make up for his production and defense. You can't replace them - certainly not the defense - but you can change your scheme to cover for the void.

You cannot replace what McLemore does.
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Old 02-20-2013, 11:26 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
Uh... yes he has.
I usually just try to ignore silly MUrons when they talk about KU as if they know anything.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:10 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Lzen View Post
I usually just try to ignore silly MUrons when they talk about KU as if they know anything.
But they really know KU... Saul Good and Prison dude says so...
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:19 PM   #38
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:22 PM   #39
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Best wishes in joining the Cats atop the standings again.
All we have to is not get swept.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:36 PM   #40
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:46 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
Plus/minus might be the worst statistic in sports. All it factors in is whether or not a player was on the floor. Not A) who was on the floor with him, B) Who was on the floor opposite him, C) what he did on the floor.

I could have a shitty plus/minus because my teammates can't guard Markel Brown. Then both Markel Brown and I sit on the bench. Now my team starts clicking. Then I come back in with Markel Brown and we're outscored. Yay, I got a shitty plus/minus.

Ben McLemore has been the best player on this team, the most complete, the biggest playmaker, the ONLY go-to scorer and a clutch defender.

Withey is by far the best shot defender, releford the best man defender, Young has outclassed the entire league in hustle plays.

But no one has done what McLemore has done. Come on, people, let's not get silly here.

His third game in uniform he dropped 25 points. He isn't as consistent as the four seniors, but he has been the best player.



That's a good question. Is most valuable the same as most outstanding or "best"? You could make an argument there. I think I might still put McLemore as more valuable than withey. If withey comes out, you can do things to make up for his production and defense. You can't replace them - certainly not the defense - but you can change your scheme to cover for the void.

You cannot replace what McLemore does.
Withey is the best player on the team so far this year. Ben has the higher upside and will become the better player, but Withey as a senior is better than Ben as a freshman.

Withey is on another level defensively. He completely changes the game, and he does it without fouling. It's pretty incredible. He's also an underrated scorer. He shoots a higher percentage that Ben, and he has more points per attempt than Ben. Obviously, he doesn't create like Ben, though.

McLemore is incredibly talented, but he isn't dominant yet. There are times when he does things that nobody else in college basketball can do, but there are other times where he just kind of stands sound and blends into the background. He isn't the defender Withey is. He isn't the rebounder Withey is. You wouldn't expect a guard to be, but he isn't a guy who creates for his teammates particularly well, and he has more turnovers than assists. He really doesn't even score much more than Withey despite the fact that he shoots 26% more often.

Don't get me wrong, I'm being hyper-critical in order to illustrate Withey's relative value. Ben is an amazing player, and it wouldn't shock me to see him go Carmello Anthony in the tournament. So far, though, Withey is the much better player. I don't think Kansas fans appreciate just how good he is.


Withey averages 13.2 ppg while shooting 55% from the field and 70% from the line, 8.4 rebounds, 4 blocks, and 1.6 fouls per game.

Last year, Anthony Davis won NPOTY with numbers that were very similar. They were better, but not by all that much.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:11 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by saphojunkie View Post
If withey comes out, you can do things to make up for his production and defense. You can't replace them - certainly not the defense - but you can change your scheme to cover for the void.
Sure, you can change your scheme to try to make up for it but it wouldn't be anywhere close to better. His presence alone forces teams into taking low percentage jump shots rather than attacking the basket. Without Withey, you can't force teams into doing that anymore. I've said he's the most irreplaceable player on the team before and I haven't seen anything that would deter me there.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:13 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by Reerun_KC View Post
But they really know KU... Saul Good and Prison dude says so...
Wait, are you saying Prison Bitch is a MU fan? I thought he was a KU fan.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:15 PM   #44
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And I'm not trying to knock McLemore. He is probably the most impressive pro prospect I've seen in the NCAA this season, other than perhaps Nerlens Noel at his best. But Withey means a lot more to this team.
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Old 02-20-2013, 01:16 PM   #45
Lzen Lzen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
Withey is the best player on the team so far this year. Ben has the higher upside and will become the better player, but Withey as a senior is better than Ben as a freshman.

Withey is on another level defensively. He completely changes the game, and he does it without fouling. It's pretty incredible. He's also an underrated scorer. He shoots a higher percentage that Ben, and he has more points per attempt than Ben. Obviously, he doesn't create like Ben, though.

McLemore is incredibly talented, but he isn't dominant yet. There are times when he does things that nobody else in college basketball can do, but there are other times where he just kind of stands sound and blends into the background. He isn't the defender Withey is. He isn't the rebounder Withey is. You wouldn't expect a guard to be, but he isn't a guy who creates for his teammates particularly well, and he has more turnovers than assists. He really doesn't even score much more than Withey despite the fact that he shoots 26% more often.

Don't get me wrong, I'm being hyper-critical in order to illustrate Withey's relative value. Ben is an amazing player, and it wouldn't shock me to see him go Carmello Anthony in the tournament. So far, though, Withey is the much better player. I don't think Kansas fans appreciate just how good he is.


Withey averages 13.2 ppg while shooting 55% from the field and 70% from the line, 8.4 rebounds, 4 blocks, and 1.6 fouls per game.

Last year, Anthony Davis won NPOTY with numbers that were very similar. They were better, but not by all that much.
Perhaps I was a bit harsh earlier. This is actually a very good argument. Nice job, Saul. Are you sure you're not a KU hoops fan?
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