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Old 02-24-2013, 04:14 PM  
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Re: SNR & everybody who claims that the non-Geno talent atop this draft is "garbage."

I recently listed several players that I felt are superior to Geno Smith, all things being equal (including positional value):

Quote:
Originally Posted by Direckshun View Post
1. OT Luke Joeckel, Texas A&M
2. DE/OLB Bjoern Werner, Florida State
3. DE/OLB Damontre Moore, Texas A&M
4. DE/DT Sheldon Richardson, Missouri
5. DT Star Lotulelei, Utah
6. OT Eric Fisher, Central Michigan
7. CB DeMarcus Milliner, Alabama
8. OT Lane Johnson, Oklahoma
9. DT Johnathan Hankins, Ohio State
10. OG Chance Warmack, Alabama
11. CB Johnathan Banks, Mississippi State
12. DE/OLB Dion Jordan, Oregon
13. S Kenny Vaccaro, Texas.
SNR responded by calling most of them "garbage":

Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR View Post
We're not drafting at #11 overall. We have the first overall pick.

Are any of those guys the best at their respective positions in their draft classes in the past 5 years?

No? How about 3 years?

TWO YEARS, BRO. Can you give me two goddamned years worth of OTs, DTs, OLBs, and CBs and say that any of those players are at the top of the position?
Well, let's take a look, shall we?

Quote:
QBs taken in the Top 10 of the past five years:

2012: Luck, RG3, Tannehill
2011: Newton, Locker, Gabbert
2010: Bradford
2009: Stafford, Sanchez
2008: Matt Ryan

Top 10 OTs of the past five years:

2012: Kalil
2011: Tyron Smith
2010: Trent Williams, Russell Okung (Anthony Davis @ #11)
2009: Jason Smith, Andre Smith, Eugene Monroe
2008: Jake Long

Passrushers taken in the Top 10 of the past five years:

2012: none
2011: Von Miller, Aldon Smith (Watt @ #11)
2010: none
2009: none (Aaron Maybin @ #11)
2008: Chris Long, Vernon Gholston, Derrick Harvey

DTs taken in the top 10 the past five years:

2012: none (Poe @ #11)
2011: Marcell Dareus
2010: Suh, Gerald McCoy, Tyson Alualu
2009: Tyson Jackson, BJ Raji
2008: Glenn Dorsey, Sedrick Ellis

(I don't care about CBs or OGs. You don't take them #1 overall.)
Now, the key here is to try to remember each of these players as prospects, not as the players we know they are now.

At QB, who was a worse prospect than Geno of the above players?

1. Luck
2-tie. RG3/Stafford
3. Ryan
4-tie. Bradford/Sanchez
5. Newton
6. Gabbert
7. Smith
8. Tannehill
9. Locker

At OT, who was a worse prospect than Joeckel, Fisher, or Lane Johnson?

The way I would have ordered them as prospects:

1. Long
2. Okung
3. Williams
4-tie. Joeckel/Kalil
5. Fisher
6. Jason Smith
7-tie. Andre Smith/Monroe/Lane Johnson
8. Tyron Smith

At passrusher, who was a worse prospect than Werner, Moore, or Jordan?

1. Miller
2. Chris Long
3. Aldon Smith
4-tie. Gholston/Werner
5. Moore
6. Harvey
7. Jordan

At DT, who was a worse prospect than Richardson or Hankins? (Star is apparently out of commission as a top 10 pick now.)

1. Suh
2. McCoy
3. Dorsey
4. Dareus
5. Raji
6. Richardson
7-tie. Ellis/Hankins
8. Tyson Jackson
9. Alualu

Now on to my broader point here:

This is how I would rank them as prospects as of now. Of course you could adjust your rankings all over the place.

But the myth that Geno Smith is on par with what we've seen in the past while the other three categories are horrendous nightmares compared to your "usual draft," is just that: a myth.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:15 PM   #2
Thig Lyfe Thig Lyfe is offline
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:16 PM   #3
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You're missing out on a key point here.

Number one. Overall. Pick.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:16 PM   #4
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:17 PM   #5
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Let's say Kalil is a wash with Joeckel/Fisher.

The Vikings already had their QB. They weren't going to draft another one.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:17 PM   #6
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:17 PM   #7
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR View Post
You're missing out on a key point here.

Number one. Overall. Pick.
No, I'm responding to the ludicrus bullshit you threw my way, calling all of these prospects "garbage" in earnest.

They are legitimately on par with what we've had in drafts past in the top 10.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:18 PM   #8
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR View Post
Let's say Kalil is a wash with Joeckel/Fisher.

The Vikings already had their QB. They weren't going to draft another one.
But Kalil was a candidate of that caliber, and if the Vikes had passed, Kalil would have been taken soon afterwards. In no universe is he anything other than a Top 10 pick in 2012.

My point is that this year's talent doesn't stack up with the elites, but it's comfortable Top Ten material across the board everywhere but maybe passrusher.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:19 PM   #9
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:19 PM   #10
SNR SNR is offline
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Matt Stafford had a lot of question marks coming out of college. But the Lions ignored that and chose to see him as a guy who would INSTANTLY dig them out of that shit hole if he turned out to be great.

Had they gone the safe route with Eugene Monroe, who knows how terrible they would be? It's possible we would have had problems with them in the race to the #1 overall pick this past season.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:19 PM   #11
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I fail to see how a guy who basically started 1 year in college (Sanchez) was considered a better prospect than Geno Smith?

What are the scouts seeing in Geno that suggests he's not a top tier QB prospect?
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:19 PM   #12
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you've proved our point

none of the talent this year would be in the top 5 of the last 5 years...unless you give them 'ties'

putting gabbert ahead of smith is pure nonsense

and none of this changes the central vapidity of your argument...reaching for mythological value (just rhetorical cover for playing it 'safe')...

but have fun passing on QBs for another decade, this value thing you've got going has served the chiefs well...
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:20 PM   #13
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:21 PM   #14
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Awesome.
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Old 02-24-2013, 04:21 PM   #15
Direckshun Direckshun is offline
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Quote:
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Matt Stafford had a lot of question marks coming out of college. But the Lions ignored that and chose to see him as a guy who would INSTANTLY dig them out of that shit hole if he turned out to be great.
Please.

"A lot of question marks."

He would have been taken #1 overall by anybody. You're rewriting history.

He was one of the best prospects we've seen. There was literally no question he was the best player in that year's draft.
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