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Old 02-22-2013, 09:36 AM  
Molitoth Molitoth is offline
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The Exhaustion of the American Teacher

Ran across this article making it's way around facebook.
I thought it was very interesting, especially considering my wife is an elementary teacher. This really hits the nail on the head.
What are your thoughts?

I don't venture into the DC forum too often, sorry if repost.

And the article won't let me Copy/Paste.

http://theeducatorsroom.com/2012/09/...erican-teacher
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:48 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The public education system has earned it's whipping post status. There are lots of good teachers and quite a few good school districts, but as a whole they're failing the nation just like parents, as a whole, are failing their kids (as many people have pointed out).

If I could only change one thing and hope to impact our education system in a positive way, I think I'd go outside the box and make divorce harder to get. That alone, probably isn't enough, but I think the biggest problem in education is the family even though I think the education system deserves plenty of blame too.
Are you implying that making people stay together will improve the family system? Or are you thinking that will keep some people from getting married in the first place?
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:48 AM   #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
If I could only change one thing and hope to impact our education system in a positive way, I think I'd go outside the box and make divorce harder to get. That alone, probably isn't enough, but I think the biggest problem in education is the family even though I think the education system deserves plenty of blame too.
Well I agree with that portion of your post...and of course, making divorce harder to get wouldn't do much, but making the parent(s) more accountable and not running the other direction in fear of lawsuits would help a great deal.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:50 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I didn't know teachers were whipping posts for the nation. I consider them victims of a flawed system, one that gives them losses on teaching.
Maybe I'm hyper-sensitive but I don't remember "Waiting for " being about parents portion of the blame.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:51 AM   #154
La literatura La literatura is offline
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Patteeu, if no fault divorce were gotten rid of, it would just mean fewer people would get married.
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Old 02-25-2013, 11:57 AM   #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
The public education system has earned it's whipping post status. There are lots of good teachers and quite a few good school districts, but as a whole they're failing the nation just like parents, as a whole, are failing their kids (as many people have pointed out).

If I could only change one thing and hope to impact our education system in a positive way, I think I'd go outside the box and make divorce harder to get. That alone, probably isn't enough, but I think the biggest problem in education is the family even though I think the education system deserves plenty of blame too.
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Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
Well I agree with that portion of your post...and of course, making divorce harder to get wouldn't do much, but making the parent(s) more accountable and not running the other direction in fear of lawsuits would help a great deal.
You can't make people live together. But you can make them accountable for the actions of their kids. Instead of laying all of the blame at the feet of teachers, maybe parents should have some repercussions for their child's performance and behavior.

I don't see us ever instituting breeding restrictions, but if you made it real tough on them when their kids were out of control, I'll bet you'd see some quick changes if folks started going to jail over their kids actions.

Now, I don't have kids, but I do pay taxes, so when it comes to public schools and kids performances, I absolutely have a dog in this race. I chose not to have children, and took precautions to make sure I would not. Diligently. Most people aren't that forward thinking and I would venture in today's world, most kids aren't planned. They just happen. Let's up the game on the expectation of how they're raised.

People say preaching abstinence will never work. Well I'd argue if there were genuine punishments for child behavior and performance, it would cause a ripple effect.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:34 PM   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fan4ever View Post
Maybe I'm hyper-sensitive but I don't remember "Waiting for " being about parents portion of the blame.
Here's what we have today:
Parents blame the schools. Schools blame the parents. Neither side takes any responsibility for their end.
When the truth is more both sides have a role in responsibility. Parents have every right to hold schools to academic results. Schools have a right to expect parents to handle children of poor behavior including personal discipline on doing homework.

However, I do think there's an overlap with poor academic results because frustrated students will also act out more or give up. Bottom line still is, there's some blame to go around. My sister's school had one third of kids failing to learn to read even by age ten, despite govt provided tutors. Her kids were frustrated and devastated. She eventually took them out, and all it took was a change in methods to turn her kids around. She was also a stay-at-home mom who helped at the school a lot and had oversight on homework. IWO she was involved and hands on...but still her public school failed her two kids. It was a wealthy school district too. I see this as the system being flawed because of how reading is taught and this relates to how teachers have been taught to teach.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:47 PM   #157
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Let me keep my property tax and hire a private tutor.

The good ones will make bank.

You want to see education improve and teacher salaries do the same, institute a voucher system. The best schools will get the most money and be able to hire/retain the best teachers.

The problem is that the gap in earning power between good teachers and shitty teachers is marginal. Bad teachers make too much money, good teachers may not make enough (in some cases; not in all).

Again, my MIL made about 70K her last year and now she's retired at 55 making 50K for the rest of her life. She had a masters and taught for a long time so she just kept getting raises (even when a bad economy kept most everyone else from getting them). She never faced a corporate grind. She never faced the accountability measures that many of us in the private sector face. She got 3 months/yr off and for the last decade of her career she operated from a lesson plan she had in place for years with only slight modifications.

Teachers just love to bitch when the reality is that the teacher's union does a great deal of them a disservice by protecting the shitty ones and many of them have very little to bitch about as it is.

The majority of teachers make what they should make. Some make too much, some don't make enough.

Welcome to working.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:50 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I could support that, as well as getting rid of No Fault Divorce too. I definitely would not go for more govt involvement in day care so both parents can work. It just creates perverse incentives.
Agree.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:55 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
Are you implying that making people stay together will improve the family system? Or are you thinking that will keep some people from getting married in the first place?
It might do both of those things, but I'm saying that I think people are too willing to get divorced over relatively trivial marital difficulties because we've made it too easy to get divorced and too easy to deal with the economics of single parenthood.

I don't want to force people who are married to an abuser or whose spouses are unfaithful to stay married, but I don't think people should get divorced just because they've grown bored with their spouse either.
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Old 02-25-2013, 12:59 PM   #160
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
Patteeu, if no fault divorce were gotten rid of, it would just mean fewer people would get married.
There'd probably be some of that, but what's so good about people getting married only because they know it's whimsically temporary?
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:00 PM   #161
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Originally Posted by Mr. Flopnuts View Post
You can't make people live together. But you can make them accountable for the actions of their kids. Instead of laying all of the blame at the feet of teachers, maybe parents should have some repercussions for their child's performance and behavior.

I don't see us ever instituting breeding restrictions, but if you made it real tough on them when their kids were out of control, I'll bet you'd see some quick changes if folks started going to jail over their kids actions.

Now, I don't have kids, but I do pay taxes, so when it comes to public schools and kids performances, I absolutely have a dog in this race. I chose not to have children, and took precautions to make sure I would not. Diligently. Most people aren't that forward thinking and I would venture in today's world, most kids aren't planned. They just happen. Let's up the game on the expectation of how they're raised.

People say preaching abstinence will never work. Well I'd argue if there were genuine punishments for child behavior and performance, it would cause a ripple effect.
I'd rather see schools able to get rid of troublesome kids or ship them off to a reform school at the parents' expense.
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Old 02-25-2013, 01:37 PM   #162
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I'd rather look at education in a whole new light in this country. Ron Paul has come out with a new book: NEW SCHOOL MANIFESTO: A Libertarian Look at American Education

Dr. Paul argues that we need to start thinking about the whole thing differently and I agree.
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:17 PM   #163
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What does he know about education? I don't think home-schooling is practical for the vast majority of households. We know the voucher argument well enough now.

Education isn't broken. Some people act as if our schools are jungles with moronic do-gooders at the helm. It's not like that. There doesn't need to be a vast revamping of education in this country. Schools are a microcosm of larger socio-economic trends. Urban schools reflect the diversity of the streets, and outer struggles carry into the classroom. Rural schools reflect their outside culture.

We can't expect schools to be the equalizer of society. It's unfair to teachers and administrators to fix society's ills through algebra problems, chemistry experiments, and group discussions of The Scarlet Letter. We expect 25 year olds to change the world 25 kids at a time. The expectations are ridiculous and so of course they are bound to disappoint.

Fix up neighborhoods, increase job stability and opportunity, decrease income inequality, and our schools will follow.
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Old 02-25-2013, 02:59 PM   #164
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
What does he know about education? I don't think home-schooling is practical for the vast majority of households. We know the voucher argument well enough now.

Education isn't broken. Some people act as if our schools are jungles with moronic do-gooders at the helm. It's not like that. There doesn't need to be a vast revamping of education in this country. Schools are a microcosm of larger socio-economic trends. Urban schools reflect the diversity of the streets, and outer struggles carry into the classroom. Rural schools reflect their outside culture.

We can't expect schools to be the equalizer of society. It's unfair to teachers and administrators to fix society's ills through algebra problems, chemistry experiments, and group discussions of The Scarlet Letter. We expect 25 year olds to change the world 25 kids at a time. The expectations are ridiculous and so of course they are bound to disappoint.

Fix up neighborhoods, increase job stability and opportunity, decrease income inequality, and our schools will follow.
Good post.

The capability to teach/learn is definitely there for those that wish to. The drive to learn needs to come from home.
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Old 02-25-2013, 03:09 PM   #165
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Education IS broken. It's also loaded with PC social engineering with no escape. They are prisons of medocrity.
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