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Old 02-22-2013, 10:36 AM  
Molitoth Molitoth is offline
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The Exhaustion of the American Teacher

Ran across this article making it's way around facebook.
I thought it was very interesting, especially considering my wife is an elementary teacher. This really hits the nail on the head.
What are your thoughts?

I don't venture into the DC forum too often, sorry if repost.

And the article won't let me Copy/Paste.

http://theeducatorsroom.com/2012/09/...erican-teacher
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:10 PM   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pr_capone View Post
Ive been around cp for over 6 years and have never been known to overstate truth to make a point. The schedule I gave is what my wife works with no exaggeration.
I believe you. I did more when I taught as an adjunct but that was because I cared more about my students and wanted results. Not every course though. It depended on the kind of students I had and the material. I depended on the course. On the other hand, we're not supposed to use anecdotal data here. Cosmos will be alone shortly to scold us.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:18 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by pr_capone View Post
Ive been around cp for over 6 years and have never been known to overstate truth to make a point. The schedule I gave is what my wife works with no exaggeration.
It's hard for me to believe, but I won't call you a liar. She's a 2 sigma exception though.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:28 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
Somewhat mitigating the 10-month work year is the fact that I'm guessing most teachers work more than 40 hours a week during the school year. I hosted a MathCounts competition today, and all the teachers were sitting at tables grading papers. I'm guessing that if they weren't at the competition, sometime this weekend they would be doing that at home. But then, lots of other people work overtime as well.
This is what's forgotten. I keep reading and hearing how employers are making employees do the work of another post instead of hiring someone pretty often. I know when I worked, even at my last part-time job in a software firm's marketing department, I still had to take work home to get it all done properly.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:33 PM   #109
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According to this link—State Impact-Ohio Education:

Teachers Work Fewer Hours than Other Professionals (And We’re Not Counting Summer Vacations)

Article is dated Oct 2011 and based on a 2008 study.
Quote:
National data shows that on average teachers work fewer hours per week than people in other professions–nearly three hours a week less. That’s according to this 2008 analysis from the Bureau of Labor Statistics (brought to our attention by the Buckeye Institute). The analysis is based on interviews from 2003-2006 conducted as part of the American Time Use Survey.

The data includes both time in the classroom and time spent grading papers at home. It doesn’t include vacations and doesn’t account for the intensity of different types of work.



http://stateimpact.npr.org/ohio/2011...mer-vacations/
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:34 PM   #110
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According to this link they work more:

Nevada State Board of Education

http://www.forrestdarby.com/teachers-workloads/
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:35 PM   #111
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By the way, here are a couple of items from the new common core assessments. These are intended for 10th graders. It's going to be.... interesting... to see these get implemented.


http://www.parcconline.org/samples/e...erary-analysis

Quote:
Use what you have learned from reading "“Daedalus and Icarus"” by Ovid and “"To a Friend Whose Work Has Come to Triumph"” by Anne Sexton to write an essay that provides an analysis of how Sexton transforms “Daedalus and Icarus.”


As a starting point, you may want to consider what is emphasized, absent, or different in the two texts, but feel free to develop your own focus for analysis.

Develop your essay by providing textual evidence from both texts. Be sure to follow the conventions of standard English.
Quote:
Use what you have learned from reading “ Daedalus and Icarus ” by Ovid and “ To a Friend Whose Work Has Come to Triumph ” by Anne Sexton to write an essay that analyzes how Icarus’s experience of flying is portrayed differently in the two texts.
Develop your essay by providing textual evidence from both texts. Be sure to follow the conventions of standard English.
And I'm all about achievement, but expecting every 10th grade student to be able to do these types of tasks with this type of literature... well... we have a long way to go. Those questions look like questions from my college level literature courses.

I'd love to have the lawmakers who passed this shit take this exam and see how they fare.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:38 PM   #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewChief View Post
By the way, here are a couple of items from the new common core assessments. These are intended for 10th graders. It's going to be.... interesting... to see these get implemented.


http://www.parcconline.org/samples/e...erary-analysis





And I'm all about achievement, but expecting every 10th grade student to be able to do these types of tasks with this type of literature... well... we have a long way to go. Those questions look like questions from my college level literature courses.

I'd love to have the lawmakers who passed this shit take this exam and see how they fare.
You know what my observation on literature is from my own personal experience, my daughters and some other kids—kids that age are still wet behind the ears about life. I know I was, so most literary analysis was over my head. What I find interesting, is I bought some of those AP Literature Test books for my daughter and they mentioned the same thing.

I can read classic literature now, with more meaning than I could in HS. Just from living life more.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:43 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
You know what my observation on literature is from my own personal experience, my daughters and some other kids—kids that age are still wet behind the ears about life. I know I was, so most literary analysis was over my head. What I find interesting, is I bought some of those AP Literature Test books for my daughter and they mentioned the same thing.

I can read classic literature now, with more meaning than I could in HS. Just from living life more.
Absolutely. I did great in my English classes in high school and could pick up on symbolism and such, but I had no relish for it beyond just a general enjoyment of reading (I read fantasy and Tom Clancy for fun). Now I love reading good literature, but I went through half of my undergraduate years as an English Major still not loving Literature (with a capital L).

The types of task above are AP Lit. type questions and can be completed by AP Lit. type kids, but they are being trained in a very specific way to be able to answer these types of questions.
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Old 02-24-2013, 01:46 PM   #114
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10th graders are just at that point where they've stopped touching each other like last year and are starting to curse in class.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:11 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewChief View Post
By the way, here are a couple of items from the new common core assessments. These are intended for 10th graders. It's going to be.... interesting... to see these get implemented.


http://www.parcconline.org/samples/e...erary-analysis





And I'm all about achievement, but expecting every 10th grade student to be able to do these types of tasks with this type of literature... well... we have a long way to go. Those questions look like questions from my college level literature courses.

I'd love to have the lawmakers who passed this shit take this exam and see how they fare.
Ugh, quit reminding me of why I hated English classes.

I had one class at TCU that ridiculous with this shit. It was taught by an adjunct from New Zealand. The title of the class was "Hollywood and blah blah bah (don't remember exactly)". I thought "Cool, we'll write papers about movies." I get to class and the guys focus was Steven Spielberg movies. I got in an argument with him about Jaws. He wanted a deep analysis. I told him it was nonsense about a shark swimming where those sharks don't swim and a bunch of scared people. I think I got a C in that class.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:19 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC native View Post
Ugh, quit reminding me of why I hated English classes.

I had one class at TCU that ridiculous with this shit. It was taught by an adjunct from New Zealand. The title of the class was "Hollywood and blah blah bah (don't remember exactly)". I thought "Cool, we'll write papers about movies." I get to class and the guys focus was Steven Spielberg movies. I got in an argument with him about Jaws. He wanted a deep analysis. I told him it was nonsense about a shark swimming where those sharks don't swim and a bunch of scared people. I think I got a C in that class.
Dude, if you don't see the critique of Western Colonialism and subsequent subjugation of indigenous populations inherent in Jaws, you deserved a D, not a C.






Just kidding, but being able to make up bullshit like the above is what separates English majors from the rest of the world. I think that English major brains produce THC naturally or something.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:51 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by pr_capone View Post
Ive been around cp for over 6 years and have never been known to overstate truth to make a point. The schedule I gave is what my wife works with no exaggeration.
I didn't do that either. In fact your chart verified what I said since it stated Masters first grade around $47K plus. I said K were paid more for a certain reason. The other guy I said taught for about 25 years and those amounts were similar. I don't understand all the outrage. It's more an emotional reaction.
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Old 02-24-2013, 02:56 PM   #118
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In most areas that value education, I don't believe they are underpaid either, but the work is exhausting at times. My wife is a high school math teacher and grades papers until 10 and 11 most nights (she has 150 students in her sections). She plans most of the summer for the next year. It isn't the same as the rest of the year, but correlates to what happens with anyone who works at home.

The teachers have summers off is a convenient cop out for those who don't want to think about reality. It is always interesting to see new substitutes reactions to what that reality entails for 6 and half hours, and of course everything has been planned for them. You are exactly right, you think it is so sweet, go back to school and take advantage. Those that do so for the "summers off" don't last long.
My family's friend with 8 kids is a HS math teacher. He takes the whole summer off and has a summer car waxing business and makes some good supplemental income at it. This is the one who says it's "The best paid part-time job." I heard him say that.
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:06 PM   #119
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oh?
TO START. No. As of the most recent pay scale, someone with a Doctorate would need to reach stage 4 on the pay scale before they would even sniff 70k.
I corrected that later by saying she started at $50 and was making $75 later.



Quote:
If they aren't making that much now, they sure as hell weren't getting that back then. Either you are misremembering or they are. There is no way that someone is getting paid that much.
Well, then I'm going to call both of them.

Quote:
To put a point on it. 75k in 1980 would equal to between 125-150k today. No one is getting paid 120k + to teach kindergarten unless it is some super prestigious private school... and I'm not sure even they would make that much.
I didn't say anyone was getting $120K though. I only know what I was told back then for their pay. I do know pay has not kept up with inflation in general. She definitely was making $75 or thereabout in the mid 80's. Like I said, I will call her. However, your chart shows Grade 1 BA starting at $46,754.00 with Grade 9 at $77,913. She started with a Masters and I remember the specific reason stated was she was paid more than other grades because K was considered crucial to the child's attitude on education. I distinctly recall that claim made for the higher pay. I also remember my mother being very surprised it paid that much.

The other part of your chart for Grade 5 Masters+30, Grade 8 is $82,736. So the family friend, a male and a HS Math teacher was making near that range, just under in the 90's and was teaching about that long.
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Old 02-24-2013, 03:12 PM   #120
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Teacher Pay for Kindergarten in Boston:

Median Annual is $58,213 with 75% at $68,949 and 90% at $78,723.

http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/T...Boston-MA.aspx
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