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Old 03-05-2013, 10:03 AM  
Fat Elvis Fat Elvis is offline
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The Chiefs are taking Geno #1; bank on it

Andy loves him some QBs. And KC has been a bottomless pit of QB suckage. While folks initially freaked out over the ASmith signing (me included), once they locked up Bowe and Albert, it seemed pretty clear that Geno will be the choice at #1.

People say you don't draft a QB #1 to sit on the bench, the first pick of the draft isn't a backup QB. They are right. They say ASmith will be the starter, especially given his compensation. They are right. Ummm, does that mean that Geno is being groomed for a year or two behind Alex? Not necessarily.

What? That is nonsense!

Only in the traditional sense.

I think Reid and Dorsey are thinking waaay outside the box on this one.

If (when) the Chiefs draft Geno, the whole idea of a "backup" QB will be shook up. "Backup" will be a matter of semantics. "Starting" will be a matter of semantics as well.

Reid and Dorsey both see the need for 2 "starting caliber" QBs on a team in today's NFL. San Fran proved beyond a shadow of a doubt last year that it really pays to have 2 QBs on your team who can start for you.

If one "starting caliber" QB goes down, you have another "starting caliber" QB ready to be plugged in and the team doesn't miss a beat.

It has been repeated ad nauseum on this board that the QB is the most important position in all of football. When you have an offense that is predicated on throwing the football 40+ times a game, you can't afford to have a dropoff in productivity should one of your QBs goes down for a time, otherwise your season is effectively over.

Reid and Dorsey get this.

As fans, especially Cheifs fans, we need to rethink our conceptions of "backup" and "starting" and realizing we are entering an era of "starting caliber" QBs.

We are being built to win.

We are being built to win even in the face of adverse contingencies.

We are going to win.

And I like it.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:08 PM   #166
Pestilence Pestilence is offline
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Originally Posted by KCWolfman View Post
Well, according to you and Detox, Joeckel isn't going until 7 or 8.

I will bet you 50.00 to the winner's favorite charity that Joeckel is gone before the 8th pick.
Ugghhh.......read what the **** I wrote.

I said he isn't going in the top 3.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:09 PM   #167
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
That's the real issue. Why trade to #1 when you can get equivalent players not only later in the top 10, but in the latter half of the round, or even the early part of the second. I mean, seriously, what player in this class is actually worth moving up for? We're probably stuck right where we are.
That simply makes more sense than any other argument I have seen here yet.

This is a weak draft, period. I will probably be proven wrong in the long run, and I can live with that. But I see nothing that makes me believe the Chiefs will take Geno Smith as a #1 pick.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:09 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
My assumption is that if Kansas City intended to use 1:1 on a quarterback, they would not be trading the 34th pick (and additional compensation) for another quarterback. They'd find a cheaper (or free) veteran if all they were looking for was a short-term mentor.

I think the moves yesterday are good in that they make the team appear more flexible, which is beneficial in an effort to trade down (which I don't think will happen), but I don't believe a QB is in any way more likely than it was 24 hours ago.

Which stings, speaking as someone who's a big geno fan. I just don't see any realistic scenario where they go that route.
I guess we just view it in a different way. Alex Smith was the best available QB, whether that be via Trade or F/A. The value of the 2nd round pick is based on who is actually Available to draft in the second round.

Honestly, this draft is thin, so Alex Smith in the 2nd may be better than anything else they would've gotten.

Anytime i hear the words "Depth draft" floating around that tells me that this draft class isn't any good.

Remember the last "depth draft"? 2009.

So once again, how much did they REALLY give up, if they didn't highly value the players projected in the 2nd round?

We're both making assumptions based on Compensation, when we really don't know exactly what the compensation is going to be.

Do you agree that if Alex doesn't receive a contract extension, that that says a lot about their intentions?
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:12 PM   #169
KCWolfman KCWolfman is offline
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Originally Posted by Pestilence View Post
Ugghhh.......read what the **** I wrote.

I said he isn't going in the top 3.
You, and Detox, also stated that Philly and Cleveland weren't interested in another LT. As I said I was using the statements from you AND Detox.

The bet still stands though. In fact, I bet he goes top 5.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:13 PM   #170
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Originally Posted by KCWolfman View Post
In fact, I make the same bet to Detox.
I never said Joeckel was going to fall to 8 (Though it is possible). You argued that the Eagles or Browns would trade up for him...those teams pick at 4 & 6.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:13 PM   #171
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
No, because the Chiefs can't plan their draft relying on what they think teams picking after them might do. You can't have the #1 pick and also approach the draft with a reactive mindset dependent on multiple other teams. Trading down is a luxury you cannot and do not plan for.
There's a couple of things that you are forgetting. One, they have the first pick and everyone is behind them. Two, a deal for that pick would likely be done in advance.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:13 PM
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:14 PM   #172
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Originally Posted by KCWolfman View Post
You, and Detox, also stated that Philly and Cleveland weren't interested in another LT. As I said I was using the statements from you AND Detox.

The bet still stands though. In fact, I bet he goes top 5.
You're arguing with a bunch of people.....keep it straight.

I said that Cleveland doesn't need a LT.....not Philly.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:15 PM   #173
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
I never said Joeckel was going to fall to 8 (Though it is possible). You argued that the Eagles or Browns would trade up for him...those teams pick at 4 & 6.
You are right.

You and many others have made a circular argument that cannot be penetrated. Which is the reason that I am also betting that you and Pestilence are screaming bloody murder when Hunt doesn't pick Geno Smith at number 1.

And again, I am willing to bet another 50.00 on that.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:16 PM   #174
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1, 4 and 6 shouldn't pick a LT, and i doubt they will considering they have Franchise LT's in place.

2, 3 and 5 MIGHT take a LT, but i think that would be dependent on how the rest of the draft falls.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:16 PM   #175
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Originally Posted by J Diddy View Post
There's a couple of things that you are forgetting. One, they have the first pick and everyone is behind them. Two, a deal for that pick would likely be done in advance.
Yup, with 99.9% probability if it were to occur.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:18 PM   #176
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
Honestly, this draft is thin, so Alex Smith in the 2nd may be better than anything else they would've gotten.

Anytime i hear the words "Depth draft" floating around that tells me that this draft class isn't any good.

Remember the last "depth draft"? 2009.
All that should tell you is that there aren't any blue chip players. Meaning that this is a draft that's thin at the very top of the first round. And that's all. Mid-first through the middle rounds this year is as good as any other. And that 34th pick may actually have more value than other years, rather than less. There are going to be some very good players going in the late 1st and early second. Unfortunately we're giving up any and all flexibility in terms of moving.

Basically, you don't think they're giving up very much, but I think 180 degree opposite of that. I think they're spending a ton. Far, far too much. Even if they're not giving anything else up. That 34th pick is too much. And that's part of the reason I think it's a long-term move. You spend that much on a starter, not a band-aid.

As far as re-signing Alex Smith goes, no, I actually wouldn't read anything into that. They have plenty of cap space this year, so they don't really need to do any cap magic. For all I know it may actually help them reach the floor number they're required to spend.

(But that's just a guess).
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:18 PM   #177
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Originally Posted by KCWolfman View Post
You are right.

You and many others have made a circular argument that cannot be penetrated. Which is the reason that I am also betting that you and Pestilence are screaming bloody murder when Hunt doesn't pick Geno Smith at number 1.

And again, I am willing to bet another 50.00 on that.
I'm not going to be screaming "bloody murder" if the Chiefs don't draft Geno. I've stated repeatedly that it's an outside chance. My argument is that it is in fact, still a chance, and that chance increased with the tagging of Albert.

Im well aware that Geno isn't likely, but what irritates me is when people claim that A LT is MORE likely.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:20 PM   #178
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
I'm not going to be screaming "bloody murder" if the Chiefs don't draft Geno. I've stated repeatedly that it's an outside chance. My argument is that it is in fact, still a chance, and that chance increased with the tagging of Albert.

Im well aware that Geno isn't likely, but what irritates me is when people claim that A LT is MORE likely.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:21 PM   #179
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
All that should tell you is that there aren't any blue chip players. Meaning that this is a draft that's thin at the very top of the first round. And that's all. Mid-first through the middle rounds this year is as good as any other. And that 34th pick may actually have more value than other years, rather than less. There are going to be some very good players going in the late 1st and early second. Unfortunately we're giving up any and all flexibility in terms of moving.

As far as re-signing Alex Smith goes, no, I actually wouldn't read anything into that. They have plenty of cap space this year, so they don't really need to do any cap magic. For all I know it may actually help them reach the floor number they're required to spend.

(But that's just a guess).
It's not about restructuring his contract. It's about COMMITMENT to him. An extension = Commitment. No extension = wait and see.

As far as the draft goes, im not buying the "depth 2-whatever" argument. If there are no great players are the top, then there are no great player at the mid-bottom.

It's a shallow draft.
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Old 03-05-2013, 02:23 PM   #180
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Originally Posted by Detoxing View Post
1, 4 and 6 shouldn't pick a LT, and i doubt they will considering they have Franchise LT's in place.

2, 3 and 5 MIGHT take a LT, but i think that would be dependent on how the rest of the draft falls.
If the raiduhs take Joeckel at #3 while Floyd and Lotulelei are still available they deserve to be demoted to a defunct NFL Europe team. Both Kelly and Seymour have been almost as big a disappointment as Jamarcus Russell.
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