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Old 03-06-2013, 02:23 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Rand Paul filibusters Brennan nomination for CIA director

I will speak today until the president responds and says, No, we wont kill Americans in cafes. No, we wont kill you at home at night, Mr. Paul said early on in the filibuster, which began at 11:47 a.m. and by early afternoon showed no signs of slowing down.

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Old 03-06-2013, 06:42 PM   #136
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It's a legal thing. Again, I'm only talking about American citizens in America. If you are in the ME and running around with Al-Qaeda, all bets are off. Your mere presence in a group that has vowed to kill American civilians at any opportunity, you take a missile up the ass, thats on you.

They can use any vague language they want. But they need to define "imminent" danger to other Americans. I agree, it could be very hard to define every single scenario. eg. If the asshole is driving a truck full of explosives to the place to blow it up and kill Americans, we can't stop him on the ground, let the drones fly. If we find out and we have time but don't even attempt to stop them on the ground and just fire a missile into the truck........

All of this is a big ****ing huge grey area. I think we Obama supporters trust him to not be killing people in the backyards. But what if some right wing ideologue gets elected in the future? This is precedent setting policy.
Wow. Just, wow.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:42 PM   #137
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Rand's objection is more related to the posse comitatus act, which restricts the military from enforcing state laws or acting as police.
It specifically forbids that in the constitution. There is no scenario where the military would allow itself to be the police on American soil.
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I believe Hitler hated Jews and had a lot of them killed. I dont believe it was anywhere close to 6 million though. I'm not an anti-semite; I just think that number has been severely inflated and there is a lot of evidence that supports this belief.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:47 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
It specifically forbids that in the constitution. There is no scenario where the military would allow itself to be the police on American soil.

LOLWUT?
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:52 PM   #139
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You didn't know there was a kill list? It's been widely reported. Maybe you should educate yourself before you form an opinion on this issue.
If the list has been widely reported, how is it possible that you don't know if your name is on it or not? Where can I access this list so I know who to stay away from?
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:52 PM   #140
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
LOLWUT?
That whole Kent State thing was a misunderstanding.

Car backfired, yada yada yada.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:55 PM   #141
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That whole Kent State thing was a misunderstanding.

Car backfired, yada yada yada.
It doesn't even have to go that far. Any time the National Guard is called into play, the possibility currently exists that Americans can be killed by the government without repercussion.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:56 PM   #142
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
It's a legal thing. Again, I'm only talking about American citizens in America. If you are in the ME and running around with Al-Qaeda, all bets are off. Your mere presence in a group that has vowed to kill American civilians at any opportunity, you take a missile up the ass, thats on you.

They can use any vague language they want. But they need to define "imminent" danger to other Americans. I agree, it could be very hard to define every single scenario. eg. If the asshole is driving a truck full of explosives to the place to blow it up and kill Americans, we can't stop him on the ground, let the drones fly. If we find out and we have time but don't even attempt to stop them on the ground and just fire a missile into the truck........

All of this is a big ****ing huge grey area. I think we Obama supporters trust him to not be killing people in the backyards. But what if some right wing ideologue gets elected in the future? This is precedent setting policy.
I agree with all that. I just think these right-wingers, motiviated purely by partisanship and deranged Obama hatred, suddenly are pretending to be against action to take out terrorists and want a level of precise specificity that is frankly impossible.
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Old 03-06-2013, 06:57 PM   #143
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Originally Posted by LoneWolf View Post
If the list has been widely reported, how is it possible that you don't know if your name is on it or not? Where can I access this list so I know who to stay away from?
It's secret. Duh.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:00 PM   #144
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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Rand actually touched on that a bit ago while I was checking out his filibuster. He doesn't necessarily object to the use of a drone to kill an american if the situation requires it, basically if we have a situation where a shot from a sniper rifle is acceptable like in a hostage situation, then there's no difference between that or using a drone.
So Rand agrees with me. That kind of sucks.


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Originally Posted by alnorth View Post
Rand's objection is more related to the posse comitatus act, which restricts the military from enforcing state laws or acting as police.
That's fine, but he's been going on for 10 hours about that?
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:03 PM   #145
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
It's secret. Duh.
Well that sucks. With the secret kill list and the death panels coming with Obamacare, I just don't feel safe.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:04 PM   #146
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Originally Posted by listopencil View Post
LOLWUT?
I wasn't talking in a historical context. I was speaking of a post Kent state era. I don't believe that the American military will fire on peaceful or even violent protesting citizens. Thats the police.

The Russians have their freedom because the military wouldn't fire on its own citizens. They were better than us in a time of crisis. I just can't believe we would make the same mistake again.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:06 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by KCWolfman View Post
It doesn't even have to go that far. Any time the National Guard is called into play, the possibility currently exists that Americans can be killed by the government without repercussion.
I'm always uncomfortable with putting soldiers into disaster zones. What if the crowd grows restless? They are not going to be disciplined front line solders. Shit happens.
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:08 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by BigRedChief View Post
I wasn't talking in a historical context. I was speaking of a post Kent state era. I don't believe that the American military will fire on peaceful or even violent protesting citizens. Thats the police.

The Russians have their freedom because the military wouldn't fire on its own citizens. They were better than us in a time of crisis. I just can't believe we would make the same mistake again.
Are you advocating the possible use of drone strikes on American soil or just Americans that are abroad?
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:13 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Are you advocating the possible use of drone strikes on American soil or just Americans that are abroad?
This question is worthless.

Possible? That opens up, well, a lot of possibilities.

By whom?

Substitute "drone strikes" with "shooting a gun". Does it make a difference to you? What's the difference if from a drone or not a drone?
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Old 03-06-2013, 07:15 PM   #150
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Originally Posted by mlyonsd View Post
Are you advocating the possible use of drone strikes on American soil or just Americans that are abroad?
In the ME and only those with Al-queda.
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