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Old 03-07-2013, 10:13 PM  
KILLER_CLOWN KILLER_CLOWN is offline
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Chris Hedges: Update On Anti-NDAA Lawsuit Vs. Obama



'It's frightening how hard Obama is fighting against us.'

Outstanding interview. Chris Hedges outside the hearing for the second circuit court of appeals in the Hedges v Obama NDAA lawsuit. NDAA gives Obama the power to indefinitely detain any American any time for virtually any reason.

http://dailybail.com/home/chris-hedg...-vs-obama.html

He makes some good points and then throws out climate change... ah well.
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Old 05-06-2014, 11:15 PM   #16
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
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damn that obama!

trying to sneak that past us like that...
That Obama guy is an asshole. HCF said so.
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Old 05-07-2014, 04:48 PM   #17
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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I suspected there is a lot more to this than an Obama thrist for imprisoning citizens, and that appears to be correct. I don't feel like research this all night, so I'll just leave this here if any cares to look into it.

Short version--the detention stuff was already part of the law since 2001 and the WH didn't think it necessary in the NDAA. The WH actually threatened a veto over the language, but Rs insisted on not putting llimitations on presidential authority. A compromise did drop a requirement of military detention for terrorism suspects arrested in the US.


From Wikipedia, for what it's worth--

"The detention sections of the NDAA begin by "affirm[ing]" that the authority of the President under the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists (AUMF), a joint resolution passed in the immediate aftermath of the September 11, 2001 attacks, includes the power to detain, via the Armed Forces, any person, including a U.S. citizen,[12][20] "who was part of or substantially supported al-Qaeda, the Taliban, or associated forces that are engaged in hostilities against the United States or its coalition partners", and anyone who commits a "belligerent act" against the United States or its coalition allies in aid of such enemy forces, under the law of war, "without trial, until the end of the hostilities authorized by the [AUMF]".

Addressing previous conflicts with the Obama Administration regarding the wording of the Senate text, the Senate-House compromise text, in sub-section 1021(d), also affirms that nothing in the Act "is intended to limit or expand the authority of the President or the scope of the Authorization for Use of Military Force".

The White House threatened to veto the Senate version of the Act,[11] arguing in an executive statement on November 17, 2011, that while "the authorities granted by the Authorization for Use of Military Force Against Terrorists, including the detention authority...are essential to our ability to protect the American people...(and) Because the authorities codified in this section already exist, the Administration does not believe codification is necessary and poses some risk".

The statement furthermore objected to the mandate for "military custody for a certain class of terrorism suspects", which it called inconsistent with "the fundamental American principle that our military does not patrol our streets".[11] The White House may now waive the requirement for military custody for some detainees following a review by appointed officials including the Attorney General, the secretaries of state, defense and homeland security, the chairman of the military’s Joint Chiefs of Staff and the director of national intelligence.[33]

After a Senate-House compromise text explicitly ruled out any limitation of the President's authorities, but also removed the requirement of military detention for terrorism suspects arrested in the United States, the White House issued a statement saying that it would not veto the bill.[38]
So...now that we've learned that this detention stuff has been in place since W's first term (actually Obama made it a little less harsh), this thread is over now?
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Old 05-07-2014, 05:52 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
So...now that we've learned that this detention stuff has been in place since W's first term (actually Obama made it a little less harsh), this thread is over now?
What did he make better? Fwiw I didn't like it under the previous administration. A great many have changed their opinion on if this is a necessary evil or not in each direction when we went from Bush to Obama. I am not comfortable with our government being authorized to detain or kill our citizens with no due process.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:06 PM   #19
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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What did he make better? Fwiw I didn't like it under the previous administration. A great many have changed their opinion on if this is a necessary evil or not in each direction when we went from Bush to Obama. I am not comfortable with our government being authorized to detain or kill our citizens with no due process.
I'm not saying you liked it before, but I wasn't even familiar with this annual NDAA thing until there was this huge stink about Obama oppressing the country with it. I find it very interesting that this dentention thing has been in the books since W's first term, but now with Obama the RWers raise hell about it.

From what I read, it was required for terror suspects to go into military custody. Now, there's some way to waive that requirement following a review of some sort.

The govt has been authorized to kill citizens without due process since forever--such as in a situation where there is a threat of imminent harm.
I'm not comfortable with indefinite detainment either.
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Old 05-07-2014, 06:57 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by cosmo20002 View Post
I'm not saying you liked it before, but I wasn't even familiar with this annual NDAA thing until there was this huge stink about Obama oppressing the country with it. I find it very interesting that this dentention thing has been in the books since W's first term, but now with Obama the RWers raise hell about it.

From what I read, it was required for terror suspects to go into military custody. Now, there's some way to waive that requirement following a review of some sort.

The govt has been authorized to kill citizens without due process since forever--such as in a situation where there is a threat of imminent harm.
I'm not comfortable with indefinite detainment either.
I just lump all this stuff under the Patriot Act. That may not be entirely accurate but the issues are what they are regardless of what we call them. I am pragmatic enough to realize their are situations where the CIA and government agencies like the NSA need to do some unseemly things but, these broad legal powers and vague criteria for using them is very disconcerting. I mean can some low level operative with a grudge present circumstantial Intel and the next thing a person walking down the street wakes up in a foreign prison or not wake up because they have a bullet in the back of the head? If it can at some point it probably will If it hasn't already.
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Old 05-07-2014, 07:26 PM   #21
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The Patriot Act was designed to completely dismantle the US Constitution to the POTUS's discretion. Obama just extended the power. Completely unconstitutional and both Bush AND Obama deserve to be jailed because of it.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:11 PM   #22
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"Obama is the soft face of Imperial corporate power."

Put that in your pipe and smoke it cosmo.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:25 PM   #23
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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I just lump all this stuff under the Patriot Act. That may not be entirely accurate but the issues are what they are regardless of what we call them. I am pragmatic enough to realize their are situations where the CIA and government agencies like the NSA need to do some unseemly things but, these broad legal powers and vague criteria for using them is very disconcerting. I mean can some low level operative with a grudge present circumstantial Intel and the next thing a person walking down the street wakes up in a foreign prison or not wake up because they have a bullet in the back of the head? If it can at some point it probably will If it hasn't already.
I agree. And all of those issues are up for legitimate debate regarding how we balance security with individual rights.

But I just finding it amazing, even allowing for a reasonable amount of partisan hypocrisy, the shitstorm caused by the detention language when it has literally already been a law for 10+ years.
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Old 05-07-2014, 08:26 PM   #24
cosmo20002 cosmo20002 is offline
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The Patriot Act was designed to completely dismantle the US Constitution to the POTUS's discretion. Obama just extended the power. Completely unconstitutional and both Bush AND Obama deserve to be jailed because of it.
Extended how?

And I hate to defend Bush, but I'm not sure how you imprison a president for signing a bill that was voted on and passed by Congress under all the applicable rules for doing so.
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