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Old 03-10-2013, 04:49 PM  
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Installing a passenger side mirror?

some dipshit kicked/punched my side mirror off and I had to go to ebay to buy a replacement...

I am not savvy enough (I'm a dipshit) to install it myself and I am getting a little bit of work done tomorrow at an auto shop and I'm going to bring the mirror with me and ask them to install it for me...

how much should I be expecting them to charge me for that labor since I have already bought the part?
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:03 PM   #211
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So....say you hire me to build a website for you. I give you a quote that it will take me 8 hours of work to complete the job....but I do it in 5 hours. Should I charge you for 5 hours or 8?
If you charge by the hour, 5. He would bill for 10 and congratulate himself on being thorough.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:03 PM   #212
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Originally Posted by Exoter175 View Post
If you quoted me 8 hours to build a website, and I hired you. I expect you to charge me for 8 hours. That is how contracts work. I have no lawful argument against it even if you told me it only took 5 hours, because I agreed to the contract. I'm not agreeing to the hours, I'm agreeing to the product, of which the price was X@8 hours.
Well what if I knew that it would only take me 7 hours max.....but I quoted you 8. Is that still wrong?
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:04 PM   #213
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
If your mechanics are so thorough that it takes them an extra hour to do the job, so be it. That's not even what you're claiming. You say that you spend less time on it that the books say yet you charge for more time. You're a thief.
If the job takes 10 hours, which isn't often heard of, yes, I would charge an extra hour.

It doesn't make me a thief if I charged them 11 and it only took me 8, if they agreed on the 11 before I even turned a wrench on the car. It just means my mechanics did good, fast work.

However, if I quoted them 11 hours, took 8, and later upped the BILL to 13 hours, that would make me a thief.

Since I do not raise or lower the quote, it isn't thievery. Often it'll take longer than the quote in "real time" due to how thorough they are. I don't charge my customers on the back end for my thorough work, I do that on the front end, so they don't pay MORE than expected.

You really don't grasp the idea of business.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:07 PM   #214
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Originally Posted by Old Dog View Post
8, but not 10....which Extorter claimed with his additional 25%
Different business, troll.
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
If you charge by the hour, 5. He would bill for 10 and congratulate himself on being thorough.
I would bill for whatever was quoted and signed into contract. No more, no less.

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Originally Posted by Pestilence View Post
Well what if I knew that it would only take me 7 hours max.....but I quoted you 8. Is that still wrong?
That is up for you to do, in automotive repair, there is no certainty that it'll take under, equal to, or over the book rate.

The book rate is just an "idea" of how long it could take. Some mechanics are very fast, some take twice as long. I only adjust the book hour so that I know the job gets done right, and not cut corners due to speed.

I also don't adjust the book on a per customer basis. It is done when the software is setup, and never touched again after that.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:11 PM   #215
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So if you book for 8.....but your mechanic is slow and takes 12......the customer doesn't get charged those extra 4 hours.....correct?
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:11 PM   #216
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Originally Posted by Exoter175 View Post
Simply put, Labor Hour is what I'm going to charge you PER HOUR to fix your car. IT doesn't stop there though, because I'm probably going to pull up something like Mitchell or Alldata to find out how long it is going to take me to fix it, when you come in and ask for a quote, and I'm probably going to mark up the base labor hour by 10-25% on top of that.
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
Good Christ man, are you a ****ing stroke victim? You've flat out stated that you bill for the book time plus 20%...you lying ****ing thief.
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Originally Posted by Exoter175 View Post
No, that isn't EXACTLY what you just posted, you imbecile.


Wierd...I guess it can be as high as 25%. If they're lucky, you give them a discount and only rip them off by billing them for 10% more time than it actually took.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:13 PM   #217
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
So your contention is that, because the software contains a manual override feature, it's ethical to falsify labor times?

Maybe some jobs take longer than the book lists because of extenuating circumstances. That doesn't mean that you should, as a matter of practice, use this feature in order to bill for hours that were never worked.
unless I'm mistaked the book is not binding, only a guide. There is nothing unethical IMHO about padding book times. If history has shown a given shop cannot complete the work in the "book time" then they need to bill whatever the actual time is.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:14 PM   #218
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Originally Posted by Pestilence View Post
So....say you hire me to build a website for you. I give you a quote that it will take me 8 hours of work to complete the job....but I do it in 5 hours. Should I charge you for 5 hours or 8?
depends on how it was quote. If it was T&M, 5. If it was a lump sum or NTE, 8.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:16 PM   #219
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Different business, troll.


I would bill for whatever was quoted and signed into contract. No more, no less.



That is up for you to do, in automotive repair, there is no certainty that it'll take under, equal to, or over the book rate.

The book rate is just an "idea" of how long it could take. Some mechanics are very fast, some take twice as long. I only adjust the book hour so that I know the job gets done right, and not cut corners due to speed.

I also don't adjust the book on a per customer basis. It is done when the software is setup, and never touched again after that.
What a great guy. All you're really doing is checking a book to see how long a job should take (knowing full well that it won't even take you as long as the book estimates), upping the number of hours by 10-25%, billing the customer accordingly, and calling yourself thorough.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:16 PM   #220
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Originally Posted by Pestilence View Post
So if you book for 8.....but your mechanic is slow and takes 12......the customer doesn't get charged those extra 4 hours.....correct?
You are correct, you aren't paying for my slow mechanic, I am.

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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
Wierd...I guess it can be as high as 25%. If they're lucky, you give them a discount and only rip them off by billing them for 10% more time than it actually took.
That isn't how it works, but you sure are trying hard to make me look like a bad guy here.

This is how it works.

You walk in, hand me the keys, My mechanic and I look at the car, noting what needs to get fixed.

I write up a quote.
I show you the quote.
You either agree or disagree with the quote.
If you agree, you sign the quote, I fix the car, you pay when it is done.
If you disagree, we figure out why you disagree (Probably because my quote has a service on there you don't feel you need to do just yet, like an oil change or something)
I write up a new quote, you agree, you sign, I fix it, you pay when it is done.

That is it. I don't charge you more when it is done, I don't charge you less when it is done. You signed a contract for me to perform a service. The hours are an estimate, the cost is based on my rate and the estimated time to accomplish the job.

That's it.

That is how it works in any lawfully established automotive repair shop, or shall I say, how it is SUPPOSED to work.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:17 PM   #221
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unless I'm mistaked the book is not binding, only a guide. There is nothing unethical IMHO about padding book times. If history has shown a given shop cannot complete the work in the "book time" then they need to bill whatever the actual time is.
I totally agree. That's not what he's doing, though. If the book says 3 hours, he's doing it in 2.5 hours and billing the customer for 3.5 hours.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:19 PM   #222
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Originally Posted by Saul Good View Post
What a great guy. All you're really doing is checking a book to see how long a job should take (knowing full well that it won't even take you as long as the book estimates), upping the number of hours by 10-25%, billing the customer accordingly, and calling yourself thorough.
I don't think you understand the process.

Similarly in construction, there are Cost Books which give contractors industry averages for performing various types of work. Some bid straight off them, some adjust, and some (like me) only use them when dealing with something we don't have a grasp on.

If the cost book tells me it will take 43 hours to install wood trim in a fancy conference room, and it only takes me 30, that's my windfall. It helps even out the next job when it takes us 70 hours instead of 43.

And again, as I understand it, he is using the "book" to quote repairs, then billing what he quoted. Nothing wrong with that.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:20 PM   #223
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I totally agree. That's not what he's doing, though. If the book says 3 hours, he's doing it in 2.5 hours and billing the customer for 3.5 hours.
So? The book is simply industry averages. There is NOTHING requiring a mechanic to bill "by the book" or even use "the book" at all.

He's telling the customer 3.5 hrs and billing 3.5 hrs.
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:21 PM   #224
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You are correct, you aren't paying for my slow mechanic, I am.



That isn't how it works, but you sure are trying hard to make me look like a bad guy here.

This is how it works.

You walk in, hand me the keys, My mechanic and I look at the car, noting what needs to get fixed.

I write up a quote.
I show you the quote.
You either agree or disagree with the quote.
If you agree, you sign the quote, I fix the car, you pay when it is done.
If you disagree, we figure out why you disagree (Probably because my quote has a service on there you don't feel you need to do just yet, like an oil change or something)
I write up a new quote, you agree, you sign, I fix it, you pay when it is done.

That is it. I don't charge you more when it is done, I don't charge you less when it is done. You signed a contract for me to perform a service. The hours are an estimate, the cost is based on my rate and the estimated time to accomplish the job.

That's it.

That is how it works in any lawfully established automotive repair shop, or shall I say, how it is SUPPOSED to work.
Right. Buyer beware.

You're just taking advantage of the fact that the old lady walking in the door doesn't know how long a job actually takes.

Why don't you try telling your next customer, "according to the professional estimating tool, this job should take three hours. I'm only going to spend two and a half hours working on it, but I'm going to bill you for three and a half hours."
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Old 03-11-2013, 02:22 PM   #225
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So? The book is simply industry averages. There is NOTHING requiring a mechanic to bill "by the book" or even use "the book" at all.

He's telling the customer 3.5 hrs and billing 3.5 hrs.
He's LYING to the customer when he bills them for more work than be did.
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