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Old 03-11-2013, 09:38 AM  
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Christian family facing deportation for homeschooling





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Old 03-11-2013, 12:12 PM   #46
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Over a dozen cases by the SC on parental rights

Decisions of the United States Supreme Court Upholding Parental Rights as “Fundamental”

The Supreme Court of the United States has traditionally and continuously upheld the principle that parents have the fundamental right to direct the education and upbringing of their children. A review of cases taking up the issue shows that the Supreme Court has unwaveringly given parental rights the highest respect and protection possible. What follows are some of the examples of the Court’s past protection of parental rights.
Just a few:

Meyer v. Nebraska
The Court invalidated a state law which prohibited foreign language instruction for school children because the law did not “promote” education but rather “arbitrarily and unreasonably” interfered with “the natural duty of the parent to give his children education suitable to their station in life...” 2 The court chastened the legislature for attempting “materially to interfere with the power of parents to control the education of their own.

Pierce v. Society of Sisters
In addition to upholding the right of parents to direct the upbringing and the education of their children, Pierce also asserts the parents’ fundamental right to keep their children free from government standardization.
The fundamental theory of liberty upon which all governments in this Union repose excluded any general power of the state to standardize its children by forcing them to accept instruction from public teachers only. The child is not the mere creature of the state; those who nurture him and direct his destiny have the right and the high duty, to recognize and prepare him for additional obligations.8 [emphasis supplied]
This case involved a family of the Amish religion who wanted to be exempt after eighth grade from the public schools to be instructed at home. In its opinion the U.S. Supreme Court further emphasized that:

Thus a state’s interest in universal education, however highly we rank it, is not totally free from a balancing process when it impinges on fundamental rights and interests, such as those specifically protected by the Free Exercise Clause of the First Amendment, and the traditional interest of parents with respect to the religious upbringing of their children . . . This case involves the fundamental and religious future and education of their children. 18 [emphasis supplied]
Farrington v. Tokushige
The parents’ right to instruct their children clearly takes precedence over the state’s regulatory interest unless the public safety is endangered.
Prince v. Massachusetts
Similarly, in Prince v. Massachusetts,12 the Supreme Court admitted the high responsibility and right of parents to control the upbringing of their children against that of the State.
It is cardinal with us that the custody, care, and nurture of the child reside first in the parents, whose primary function and freedom include preparation for obligations the State can neither supply nor hinder.13 [emphasis supplied]
Griswold v. Connecticut
Emphasized that the state cannot interfere with the right of a parent to control his child’s education. The Court stated that the right to educate one’s child as one chooses is guaranteed in the Bill of Rights and applicable to the States by the First and Fourteenth Amendments. [Well I don't think the 14th Amendment is needed on this even.]
Holder is out of line. People come here for such freedom. There may have been a law that applies to all but it still does permit such liberty against state compulsion. Hence it persecutes.


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Old 03-11-2013, 12:15 PM   #47
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Historically two countries were at the forefront of universal education. Germany and the United States. Both greatly benefited from this investment. Germany began this under the Prussian system and an autocratic regime. Like most of Europe the people of a country were considered property of the King. As such the universal education was conceived as top down and correct use of owned resources. In the US the universal education was not a federal movement but a state movement. It had and still does have universal opportunity more than universal requirement.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:17 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bowser View Post
I'm in no way saying Germany is right for upholding some ridiculous Nazi-era law. I guess the best thing everyone can hope for from this case is that there will now be pressure on Germany to re-evaluate this law and potentially others.
Which is a good thing, imo. But it doesn't protect those parents from compulsory govt standardization in the meantime.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:18 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
Historically two countries were at the forefront of universal education. Germany and the United States. Both greatly benefited from this investment. Germany began this under the Prussian system and an autocratic regime. Like most of Europe the people of a country were considered property of the King. As such the universal education was conceived as top down and correct use of owned resources. In the US the universal education was not a federal movement but a state movement. It had and still does have universal opportunity more than universal requirement.
Correct Tip, Horace Mann, a Whig, copied the Prussian system which was aimed a creating a society that would conform and obey the state. The Prussians started it when it saw some soldiers not willing to comply. Hence, making the whole society obey orders. Mind control, not education. Here they are in earlier days doing what was called the Bellamy Salute. Bellamy was a socialist.

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Old 03-11-2013, 12:23 PM   #50
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You gotta think the Meyer Nebraska ruling was against the state interference in offerings at public schools. It was an anti German law from WW1 that was under dispute.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:28 PM   #51
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Look my wife's father's clan left Germany because of Bismark and his military notions introduced from Prussia to the unified Germany so there is truth to your statement but the system also pushed united Germany to the forefront of scientific pursuits prior to WW 2. Horace Mann did not look to duplicate that Prussian militarism but the universal education opportunity.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:28 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiptap View Post
You gotta think the Meyer Nebraska ruling was against the state interference in offerings at public schools. It was an anti German law from WW1 that was under dispute.
Doesn't matter, it still addresses the larger area of fundamental rights being violated.
"This decision clearly affirmed that the Constitution protects the preferences of the parent in education over those of the State."
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:29 PM   #53
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Look my wife's father's clan left Germany because of Bismark and his military notions introduced from Prussia to the unified Germany so there is truth to your statement but the system also pushed united Germany to the forefront of scientific pursuits prior to WW 2. Horace Mann did not look to duplicate that Prussian militarism but the universal education opportunity.
Horace Mann was a Whig, aka corporatist and liked the compulsory controls too. Don't have time to get into in detail right now.

As to pushing Germany to the forefront, you don't know what they would have had without it being run by the state either.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:31 PM   #54
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The United States had a very large dose of English Enlightenment which directed pursuits with less and less central direction and emphasis. You had large intent by industry to educate according to their desires as well.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:31 PM   #55
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I'll probably get flamed for this, and it is what it is. I don't have a problem with a parent wanting to homeschool. Having said that, I see hundreds of children a month at my office, and by and large, the ones that are homeschooled are just a bit "odd". Usually they are sort of antisocial, and they just seem plain weird. Just my observation.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:32 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Horace Mann was a Whig, aka corporatist and liked the compulsory controls too. Don't have time to get into in detail right now.

As to pushing Germany to the forefront, you don't know what they would have had without it being run by the state either.
Where was that other country that represents the success you would purport?
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:33 PM   #57
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I'll probably get flamed for this, and it is what it is. I don't have a problem with a parent wanting to homeschool. Having said that, I see hundreds of children a month at my office, and by and large, the ones that are homeschooled are just a bit "odd". Usually they are sort of antisocial, and they just seem plain weird. Just my observation.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:34 PM   #58
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The Amish decision is the worse. I realize it is religiously directed but leaving such grossly undereducated children leaves them very little opportunity to claim freedom when they come of age.
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:34 PM   #59
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The United States had a very large dose of English Enlightenment which directed pursuits with less and less central direction and emphasis. You had large intent by industry to educate according to their desires as well.
Except that previous to Horace Mann and the Progressive Movement education in America began as an attack on Catholics as they educated their own without the state. It freaked the Protestants out.

Quote:
In the mid-nineteenth century, Protestant “Know-Nothings” railed against the millions of newly-arrived Catholic immigrants — “criminals” who had a lot of kids and were starting their own schools, complete with armies of foreign nuns and papist priests.

According to Rousas Rushdoony’s history, Horace Mann, the founder of the public school movement in Massachusetts, believed that “the [public] schools are the means, instruments, vehicles, and true church by which salvation is given to society.” Given that goal, Mann “changed the function of education from ‘mere learning’ or religiously-oriented education to ‘social efficiency, civic virtue, and character” (by the twentieth century, character “ceased to be a concern” in the public schools, Rushdoony notes). Mann also demanded that control of community schools be transferred into state hands.

A decade later and a continent away, another pioneer took up the cause. John Swett was responsible for “framing the basic legislation of the state system” as California’s Superintendent of Public Instruction during the 1860s.

Swett made his goals perfectly clear:

“Children arrived at the age of maturity belong not to the parents but to the State, to society, and to the country,” he insisted — so children should be educated not according to the beliefs of their parents, but those of the government.
The “civil religion” taught in government schools was designed to neutralize the papist heresies taught in the parochial schools. For the Know-Nothings, Catholic families were not only the competition: they were the enemy. Catholics were inferiors that had to be raised to the level of civic virtue expected of everyone else.

Christopher Manion
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Old 03-11-2013, 12:36 PM   #60
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The Amish decision is the worse. I realize it is religiously directed but leaving such grossly undereducated children leaves them very little opportunity to claim freedom when they come of age.
Freedom does not mean that you get to impose a certain lifestyle on them. It means they are free to follow their own. The Amish belief is that they want to steer clear of too much worldliness because they believe it leads to corruption. So it suits their lifestyle.
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