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View Poll Results: Is discriminating against someone because of their sexual orientation wrong?
Yes, it is morally wrong 10 15.87%
Yes, it is morally and legally wrong 32 50.79%
No, its not morally wrong 0 0%
No, its not morally or legally wrong 10 15.87%
Yes, its legally wrong but morally right 0 0%
Yes, its morally wrong but still legal to discriminate 7 11.11%
Put me down for the GAZ option 4 6.35%
Voters: 63. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-25-2013, 06:51 PM  
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Is discriminating against someone because of their sexual orientation wrong?

I've never had a publicly gay friend, family member or co-worker. I have no experience with anyone being discriminated against for being gay. I can't understand the concept of male wanting to have sex with another male.

But, I don't have to understand it. Whatever two consenting adults do in the privacy of their own bedroom is none of my business.

I believe that discriminating against someone only because of their sexual orientation is wrong and is/should be constitutionally protected.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:36 AM   #136
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This is really all you have to read. This guy is a moron.
That's not an argument.

Justin is an opinion leader in the gay movement and a major libertarian. Having lived with a gay roomate and traveled in that lifestyle, I have witnessed lot of what he says about their lifestyle.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:38 AM   #137
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Sure it does. The concept of equality is being perverted by the gay marriage via equal protection forces. Equality isn't based on personal desire. If I hold a random drawing for free football tickets where everyone on ChiefsPlanet has an equal chance to win, I'm treating everyone equally, even if they're Chiefs tickets and some ChiefsPlanet members would rather have Broncos tickets.
Marriage isn't a gift from the State.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:38 AM   #138
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That's not an argument.

Justin is an opinion leader in the gay movement and a major libertarian. Having lived with a gay roomate and traveled in that lifestyle, I have witnessed lot of what he says about their lifestyle.
I have witnessed, through direct observation, the exact opposite.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:40 AM   #139
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I have witnessed, through direct observation, the exact opposite.
You don't know until you live with someone what they're really like. Everyone is different privately. That's when you see more. Not that everyone one of them are exactly alike.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:45 AM   #140
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You don't know until you live with someone what they're really like. Everyone is different privately. That's when you see more. Not that everyone one of them are exactly alike.
I have an uncle through marriage that has been with his life partner since around 1970. I have other family members who are gay that have been in long term relationships that mirror straight ones. I have several very good friends who are in long term gay relationships. I have also witnessed, through direct observation, the behavior of straight people in relationships over the course of my life and have found their behavior to span much of the same spectrum as gay people.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:45 AM   #141
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Marriage isn't a gift from the State.
Talk about cop outs. The parts that are being argued about are. If you're not interested in state gifts, you're free to marry anyone you want to marry, same sex or otherwise.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:49 AM   #142
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Talk about cop outs. The parts that are being argued about are. If you're not interested in state gifts, you're free to marry anyone you want to marry, same sex or otherwise.
No, you're not. That's the point. You really aren't allowed to marry anyone that you want. There are bans on gay marriage in several states.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:49 AM   #143
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I have witnessed, through direct observation, the exact opposite.
I don't think any of our direct observations are likely to be dispositive on this. My experience is mixed, fwiw. Some of my gay friends are in the most stable relationships I know of and others are as promiscuous as Wilt Chamberlain.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:50 AM   #144
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No, you're not. That's the point. You really aren't allowed to marry anyone that you want. There are bans on gay marriage in several states.
No there aren't. Texas doesn't have state sanctioned marriage for same sex couples (the kind that comes with gifts from the state), but I knew a gay couple who married there anyway.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:50 AM   #145
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No there aren't.
There aren't what?
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:53 AM   #146
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No there aren't. Texas doesn't have state sanctioned marriage for same sex couples (the kind that comes with gifts from the state), but I knew a gay couple who married there anyway.
Performing a same sex marriage in a state where it is banned is one of the ways that people are fighting against the bans. Breaking the law doesn't change the law. It can get the ball rolling towards change, but performing the ceremony doesn't change the law.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:57 AM   #147
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I don't think any of our direct observations are likely to be dispositive on this. My experience is mixed, fwiw. Some of my gay friends are in the most stable relationships I know of and others are as promiscuous as Wilt Chamberlain.
True. I just don't think it is reasonable for the author of the above article to attempt to paint with such a wide brush, while ignoring the problems in relationships of straight people. They imply to me that those problems are inherent in humans, rather than the nature of the relationships.
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Old 03-27-2013, 10:58 AM   #148
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It was also recognized beyond simply a man and a woman.
Link?
I researched this years ago and found no such thing despite some vague claims by a tiny handful on the left.


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There have been many forms of marriage historically recognized. The Bible records several examples, or rules, of what we would not consider to be traditional marriage. Those marriages were just almost exclusively of opposite gender.
This isn't really relevant to what I was saying. It wasn't what I was saying at all. I was saying that people just up and married without the state.
I also wasn't talking about what you are labelling "traditional marriage" as we know it today. I was talking about what you just agreed was exclusively of opposite gender as a basis for a marriage while holding different forms. It was the common denominator.

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I understand it, I just don't agree with you on what is and is not natural. I observe that homosexual behavior, including pair bonding, exists in the animal kingdom.
Doesn't matter. That still doesn't produce offspring in a natural state (without man made science intervening). So it's not based on natural law.

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I observe that homosexual people in long term relationships are as healthy and happy as their straight counterparts other than dealing with interference by the State and Church, and bigotry from society.
Clinical studies show otherwise, even in countries like Holland which is tolerant and grants them many more positivist "rights." Perhaps it's marriage that's the problem here? So why get married? Heh!

In a free country people have a right to be a bigot. That's libertarianism as opposed to cultural Marxism where the state is used to punish those who don't agree. Live and let live means exactly that.

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I don't accept that marriage exists to forward the survival of the human race because it never has existed for that purpose. It's a social contract enacted by individuals. It has been enacted for a wide variety of reasons throughout human history. I believe that this preference of partner is the root of the contract.
You are free to not accept it, but history shows what people did and why otherwise. That is exactly what marriage was about for millenia. It was primarily an economic union for survival and parents chose partners in order to unite families for this reason. They would try to maintain wealth. You see it in novels from different eras even. If someone was caught kissing someone they were also considered married. If you think marriage is just about love and sexual attraction then you have a very limited understanding of why marriage was created or what it was through history. That is a relatively new and very modern idea. It also doesn't seem to have worked well when one sees the rates of divorce.

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Yes. Equality. As in there is no difference between a gay and straight marriage in the eyes of the law. I accept that there are special rights given to married citizens. As I stated, I don't believe that this will change any time soon. They aren't being voted on or even considered as far as I know. Be that as it may, those are two separate issues.
No equality does not mean everything or everyone is the same. They have the same rights as everyone else. I get that you don't accept it but your argument is a cultural Marxist one—not a libertarian one. I simply disagree with the arguments and claims that the left makes on this issue—not the end result. I don't want to see businesses and landlord's sued which using the statists' arguments would do.

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My way? Are you unaware of the substantial changes that the nature of a marriage has changed through human history?
I never said there weren't any changes. I was commenting on what you claimed to be self-evident which it's not.

Here's one change you don't seem to recognize: marry for love alone was considered a scandal for a much longer period than the time that changed which was only in recent history. That only began to change around the turn of the 18th-19th century. Frankly, it hasn't seemed to work better when people choose their own partner based on love.


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Again, procreation is not in any way the sole worth of a marriage.
You omitted my point about it being an economic union though. This was mentioned because that was it's original purpose. It was the purpose since so many people died young and didn't make it to adulthood. They didn't have the economic systems we have today. It was an economic unit that benefited individuals in many ways. Hence the procreation aspect as children were considered wealth—unlike today where they're considered an expense only.

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The acts of a single person or group of persons do not have to benefit society to be worthwhile.
Purely an opinion. Not making that argument anyway. Was stating the history of the institution which is fact. That's why people joined together which benefited each individual in that unit. People don't survive well all alone as an individual. They form groups and communities for a reason. The family is just the smallest governing unit.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:00 AM   #149
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I'll wait til you fix the formatting to respond to that as our replies are getting very cluttered.
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Old 03-27-2013, 11:01 AM   #150
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Performing a same sex marriage in a state where it is banned is one of the ways that people are fighting against the bans. Breaking the law doesn't change the law. It can get the ball rolling towards change, but performing the ceremony doesn't change the law.
There is no law banning gay marriage of this type. These marriages are not illegal. They just don't qualify for the gifts from the state that we were talking about.

Now if you have a civil servant attempting to extend a state sanctioned marriage to a same sex couple in a state that doesn't recognize same sex marriage, that's a different story. That official is over-stepping his bounds. It's still not something the couple can be punished for, but it just means that their marriage is invalid in the state's eyes even though it can remain perfectly valid in the couples' eyes if they so choose.
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