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Old 03-27-2013, 03:42 PM  
Dave Lane Dave Lane is offline
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Creationist offers $10K to prove Bible wrong

Creationist offers $10K to prove Bible wrong
Betting that science supports Genesis and not Darwin.

By Rich_Maloof

A die-hard creationist is putting his money where his faith is.
Dr. Joseph Mastropaolo believes unequivocally that the Bible's book of Genesis is a literal account of our universe's origin. Standing firmly behind his convictions, which he believes can be scientifically demonstrated, Mastropaolo has issued a challenge: Anyone who can prove, using hard evidence, that science contradicts the literal reading of Genesis walks away $10,000 richer.

Be warned: You don't want to sign up for this challenge without your facts in order. Contestants must arrive ready to argue their position against Mastropaolo with their own $10k in hand — and be willing to lose the money if Mastropaolo's scientific evidence of creationism prevails. So it's not so much a reward situation as a high-stakes bet. Whether or not the Bible says gambling is a sin remains a debate for another time.

The Literal Genesis Trial Contest is detailed at the Creation Science Hall of Fame — "Honoring those who honored God's Word as literally written in Genesis" — where the challenge is addressed, in good competitive spirit, to theistic evolutionists, allegoricallists, and "all you 'Long Agers.'"

According to contest rules, a mini-trial will be held in a courthouse where the contestant and Mastropaolo are to each put $10,000 in escrow. A superior court justice will decide which party prevails and is awarded the $20,000. (The Creation Science Hall of Fame is hosting the challenge but says it is not a party to the judge or any other entity involved.)

If you plan on arriving with a high schooler's grasp of evolution and a copy of Darwin's "On the Origin of Species," well, may God be with you. Mastropaolo is a highly educated, highly accomplished scientist. He's a recognized expert in kinesiology (the scientific study of body movement, aka human kinetics) and a recipient of Vice Presidential Awards for his studies on life in space.
And he believes that evolution cannot be proved.

"[Evolutionists] are not stupid people," Mastropaolo told The Guardian. "They are bright, but they are bright enough to know there is no scientific evidence they can give in a mini-trial."

Mastropaolo's bio indicates he has already scientifically proved that Adam and Eve were genetically perfect, that "ape-men are frauds" and that the Earth is 6,800 years old, give or take eight and a half centuries.

http://living.msn.com/life-inspired/the-daily-dose-blog-post?post=56fddca5-e512-4367-b2bb-7530e3bc8006#scptmh$


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Old 03-28-2013, 03:46 PM   #91
Xanathol Xanathol is offline
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
There are actually countless living examples of evolution to use as proof. Darwin's Galapagos Finches are a good example. We've been able to observe the evolution of these finches directly from their common ancestor. And the variety and changes in these species of birds from their common ancestor is quite striking. This is just one of thousands upon thousands of examples.

And that's why we all laugh at people who put their belief ( yes, its a theory and therefore a belief ) in evolution. Just because something looks like something else does not mean it "evolved". Does your lab breeding with your poodle create "evolution"? Does a chameleon "evolve" every time is changes color?

No one has ever observed a species in a controlled setting "evolve". Darwin's finches are theorized to have a common ancestor that they "evolved" from "millions of years ago" - no one has ever observed it happening. It could be a different breed, it could be mixed breeding, it could be completely separate animals that you just haven't found a skeleton of. Any number of possibilities!

This is why evolutionist are idiots, because they believe in what boils down to childish ideas of "this looks like that" claimed by people they elevate above themselves as being 'experts on the subject'... as long as they tell them what they want to hear... while attempting to belittle those who see the obvious flaws and disagree with them.

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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
But you're right. Evolution cannot answer the question of how life was initially created. No different than how religion cannot answer how their God was supposedly created. There are some good ideas. But the scientific ones don't actually involves crystals or aliens or anything silly like that. Crystals? LOL?
Most religions don't feel a need to answer how God was created; only those who wish to "find scientific proof" have that burden.

For the record, some of the most outspoken "evolutionist / anti-creationist" have offered up exactly those theories - aliens, crystals and other idiotic ideas. Check out Ben Stein's Expelled; he has some of these folks on video making these very statements and if you truly have "researched" your belief in evolution, the names should be very familiar.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:10 PM   #92
Wildcat2005 Wildcat2005 is offline
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Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post

No one has ever observed a species in a controlled setting "evolve".
Yes they have, flies and bacteria are two common examples.

Everything you said is nonsense
I don't understand where you learned these misconceptions about evolution, it could not of come from a biologist or someone with knowledge of how the mechanisms of evolution actually work
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:13 PM   #93
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Originally Posted by Fish View Post
... actually the Bible doesn't say or imply that there are any other people. Period. There are no scriptures at all that directly say there were any other people.

I already cited the text of Gen 1:26-28 where the author speaks of THEM as in, plural people. This before the Adam story. I have no idea what you're even arguing here, unless you're saying the chronology is backwards.



Quote:
And I've shown many scriptures that say Adam was the first, and there were no others. The bottom line is that the Bible does say Adam was the first and only, and it absolutely doesn't say there were any others.
See above.


Quote:
Since the Bible mentions absolutely nothing else about any other people before Adam, it's overwhelmingly more likely that it means exactly what is written.
See above. As an aside, if you're correct that the chronology of "THEM" to "ADAM" is backwards, it still doesn't mean anything as it is. Of course the story of humans are going to start with Jesus' lineage because that's the entire point of the Bible. Do you want the story to begin with the Bedoiun tribe of Sherpa-ville? What purpose would that even serve?


Quote:
And you'll not find many if any Biblical scholars that will agree with your notion that there were other people before Adam. Go ahead and ask and look around. You're in the minority with your interpretation.

I don't know what the preponderance of Biblical scholars say on this issue, not that it matters, but plenty of scholars not only (1) accept Biblical stories as allegory in spots and (2) believe that Cain's newfound neighbors were pre-existing peoples. This is not the controversy you're pretending it to be.


Quote:
And it says directly in Genesis that Adam and Eve had many more children:

Genesis 5:4 After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he had sons and daughters.

True but irrelevant.


Quote:
It doesn't say he "Found" a wife. I already pointed that out. It says he "Knew" his wife. I've also explained what "Knew" meant, with scripture to back it up.
.

Wow, this might set a record for dumb. To "KNOW" a woman means simply to have sexual relations with her. Scripture also reports Adam "knew" Eve when she got preggo with Cain in Gen 4:1. By this same contstruct Cain "knew" his wife when she got preggo too. It does NOT mean he had pre-existing knowledge of her before he left Eden.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:17 PM   #94
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Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
And that's why we all laugh at people who put their belief ( yes, its a theory and therefore a belief ) in evolution. Just because something looks like something else does not mean it "evolved". Does your lab breeding with your poodle create "evolution"? Does a chameleon "evolve" every time is changes color?

No one has ever observed a species in a controlled setting "evolve". Darwin's finches are theorized to have a common ancestor that they "evolved" from "millions of years ago" - no one has ever observed it happening. It could be a different breed, it could be mixed breeding, it could be completely separate animals that you just haven't found a skeleton of. Any number of possibilities!

This is why evolutionist are idiots, because they believe in what boils down to childish ideas of "this looks like that" claimed by people they elevate above themselves as being 'experts on the subject'... as long as they tell them what they want to hear... while attempting to belittle those who see the obvious flaws and disagree with them.
I'm sorry but you clearly have no grasp of what the concept of evolution even means. The chart above and explanation of the Galapagos finches is exactly what you're claiming does not exist. These finches, in their completely isolated environment of the islands, provides a very good look at the species and how they change. And micro evolution can and has been directly observed in these birds. This is not guessing or theorizing at all. There were real living scientists who spent decades on the island observing and categorizing all of this. Evolutionary changes are observable in as little as 20 years here.

Quote:
Researchers from New Jersey's Princeton University have observed a species of finch in Ecuador's Galápagos Islands that evolved to have a smaller beak within a mere two decades.

In 1982 the large ground finch arrived on the tiny Galápagos island of Daphne, just east of the island of San Salvador (map of the Galápagos).

Since then the medium ground finch, a long-time Daphne resident, has evolved to have a smaller beak—apparently as a result of direct competition with the larger bird for food.

Evolutionary theory had previously suggested that competition between two similar species can drive the animals to evolve in different directions.

But until now the effect had never been observed in action in the wild.

In the new study Princeton's Peter and Rosemary Grant closely tracked the two related species for decades.

Their results appear in this week's issue of the journal Science.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...evolution.html
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Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
Most religions don't feel a need to answer how God was created; only those who wish to "find scientific proof" have that burden.

For the record, some of the most outspoken "evolutionist / anti-creationist" have offered up exactly those theories - aliens, crystals and other idiotic ideas. Check out Ben Stein's Expelled; he has some of these folks on video making these very statements and if you truly have "researched" your belief in evolution, the names should be very familiar.
It's convenient that most religions don't feel a need to answer how God was created. I wonder why that is? Don't you think if an explanation existed, it would be sought after by those who devote their entire life to the belief? Hmm..

And I have no idea what "Evolutionist(that's not even an actual term) / anti-creationist" you're talking about, but whoever you saw on that video was not an actual intelligent scientist arguing that life began from a crystal. That wouldn't really explain where the crystal came from...
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:36 PM   #95
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Yes they have, flies and bacteria are two common examples.
They also remained the same species.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:38 PM   #96
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All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident.

Arthur Schopenhauer, German philosopher (1788 – 1860)

Based on this quote, Dave Lane likely joined a bible study and is in a signing up for a seminary right now.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:41 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by Xanathol View Post
And that's why we all laugh at people who put their belief ( yes, its a theory and therefore a belief ) in evolution. Just because something looks like something else does not mean it "evolved". Does your lab breeding with your poodle create "evolution"? Does a chameleon "evolve" every time is changes color?

No one has ever observed a species in a controlled setting "evolve". Darwin's finches are theorized to have a common ancestor that they "evolved" from "millions of years ago" - no one has ever observed it happening. It could be a different breed, it could be mixed breeding, it could be completely separate animals that you just haven't found a skeleton of. Any number of possibilities!

This is why evolutionist are idiots, because they believe in what boils down to childish ideas of "this looks like that" claimed by people they elevate above themselves as being 'experts on the subject'... as long as they tell them what they want to hear... while attempting to belittle those who see the obvious flaws and disagree with them.

Most religions don't feel a need to answer how God was created; only those who wish to "find scientific proof" have that burden.

For the record, some of the most outspoken "evolutionist / anti-creationist" have offered up exactly those theories - aliens, crystals and other idiotic ideas. Check out Ben Stein's Expelled; he has some of these folks on video making these very statements and if you truly have "researched" your belief in evolution, the names should be very familiar.
This is why people take such offense towards some religious folks desire to discredit evolution. You have no idea what evolution is. Period.

Please do tell us some obvious flaws in evolution. Certainly they must be backed by scientific evidence if they are so obvious. Oh, and please try to do it without using your idea of what evolution is. Moving the goal posts around is a common disingenuous tactic used by people such as yourself. Considering you don't even know what a scientific theory is (hence your saying its a theory therefore belief), your answer will surely be...well...it will be something I guess.

Edit: Btw, what is evolutionist/anti-creationist supposed to mean?
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:44 PM   #98
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
I already cited the text of Gen 1:26-28 where the author speaks of THEM as in, plural people. This before the Adam story. I have no idea what you're even arguing here, unless you're saying the chronology is backwards.

See above.

See above. As an aside, if you're correct that the chronology of "THEM" to "ADAM" is backwards, it still doesn't mean anything as it is. Of course the story of humans are going to start with Jesus' lineage because that's the entire point of the Bible. Do you want the story to begin with the Bedoiun tribe of Sherpa-ville? What purpose would that even serve?
In Gen 1:26, "Them" refers to Adam and his future people. That's the only thing discussed in that chapter. There are no scriptures anywhere in the chapter mentioning other people from elsewhere. If there is no mention of any other people, then anyone following along understands that the intention wasn't to mean other people that were not talked about. That's a huge stretch, and seems to be the only thing you're hanging on to. It doesn't matter where the word "Them" came chronologically, there is no other mention anywhere providing any inclination that "Them" means anyone other than Adam and Company. It's that simple. If no other outside humans are mentioned, then "Them" is understood to mean the people that actually were talked about. Adam and Co.

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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
I don't know what the preponderance of Biblical scholars say on this issue, not that it matters, but plenty of scholars not only (1) accept Biblical stories as allegory in spots and (2) believe that Cain's newfound neighbors were pre-existing peoples. This is not the controversy you're pretending it to be.
Wouldn't that be good information to know? I've looked into it, and it's pretty clear. There are countless religious webpages explaining this exact question. I've used several of them for reference. They overwhelmingly support the idea that there were no other pre-Adam people. Look into it. I didn't find any actual reputable biblical entities that said there were pre-existing peoples. I'd love a few links if you have them. Everything I found argued against that.

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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
True but irrelevant.
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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
Wow, this might set a record for dumb. To "KNOW" a woman means simply to have sexual relations with her. Scripture also reports Adam "knew" Eve when she got preggo with Cain in Gen 4:1. By this same contstruct Cain "knew" his wife when she got preggo too. It does NOT mean he had pre-existing knowledge of her before he left Eden.
I don't even understand what you're trying to argue here. "Know", in the scriptures I referenced, means "To have sex with". Which I think you're agreeing with.

This is what I was responding to:

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Originally Posted by Prison Bitch View Post
The Bible tells us why he was afraid: he was departing "from the presence of the Lord". That's what scared him. That's why he feared for his life. Those people living in far off lands wouldn't know about his murder unless they logged into the Internet to find out.

And yet, we read that he finds a wife there and builds a city. I guess all those "siblings" weren't really angry at him after all.
The people, who you claim lived in far off lands away from the presence of the Lord, evidently knew about Cain somehow. You're forgetting that Cain was "Marked", and God instructed others not to kill him. So yes, they knew about his murder. Without the internet even. They had the Godnet.

Here's the passage:

Quote:
The Lord said, “What have you done? Listen! Your brother’s blood cries out to me from the ground. 11Now you are under a curse and driven from the ground, which opened its mouth to receive your brother’s blood from your hand. 12When you work the ground, it will no longer yield its crops for you. You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.”

13Cain said to the Lord, “My punishment is more than I can bear. 14Today you are driving me from the land, and I will be hidden from your presence; I will be a restless wanderer on the earth, and whoever finds me will kill me.”

15But the Lord said to him, “Not so ; anyone who kills Cain will suffer vengeance seven times over.” Then the Lord put a mark on Cain so that no one who found him would kill him. 16So Cain went out from the Lord’s presence and lived in the land of Nod, east of Eden.

17Cain made love to his wife, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Enoch. Cain was then building a city, and he named it after his son Enoch.
And note that it doesn't say anywhere that Cain "Found" his wife. Only that he knew her(sexed her up), and they built a city in Nod.
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:54 PM   #99
Wildcat2005 Wildcat2005 is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
They also remained the same species.
evolution = changes in hereditary traits

Changes in traits can be observed and recorded in a controlled environment with species that reproduce quickly enough

He said no one has ever observed evolution, that is false
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Old 03-28-2013, 04:58 PM   #100
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Both sides of this argument are whacked out.

My boss for many years is a well-respected Chemist. His most famous saying is, "I understood everything about chemistry and physics when I got my Bachelors degree. I then studied with the best in the field and all that knowledge fell apart."
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:02 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
Both sides of this argument are whacked out.

My boss for many years is a well-respected Chemist. His most famous saying is, "I understood everything about chemistry and physics when I got my Bachelors degree. I then studied with the best in the field and all that knowledge fell apart."
eh, it happens. I'm a Ph.D grad student in molecular genetics, but at one point in my undergrad career, I was going to get my degree in chemistry. I love the simple elegance of chemistry--UNTIL you get to organic, physical and analytical chemistry. shit falls apart QUICKLY. there's a reason I'm in molecular genetics now rather than chemistry.

I can EASILY see how the knowledge fell apart quickly--learning normal, standard chemistry (inorganic) is like learning a language from a book. makes perfect sense, rules are ALL black/white. physical, analytical and organic chemistry are all FULL of conditional rules, exceptions, etc. in other words, they're the real-life chemistry. shit doesn't always work perfectly, and these forms of chemistry are the explanation for some of the reasons why they don't. (yeah, grossly simplified).
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:29 PM   #102
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:38 PM   #103
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Originally Posted by Stewie View Post
Both sides of this argument are whacked out.

My boss for many years is a well-respected Chemist. His most famous saying is, "I understood everything about chemistry and physics when I got my Bachelors degree. I then studied with the best in the field and all that knowledge fell apart."
No both sides are not whacked out. Your boss's saying is of course an exaggeration and simply means he had a lot left to learn. It is not as if he received his chemistry degree then found out atoms don't have electrons. That's what creationists are trying to do--taking one of the most basic facets of biology--evolution--and simply saying, "Nope, didn't happen, not true."
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Old 03-28-2013, 05:56 PM   #104
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Since some thumpers are presenting their 'evidence' I will present some scripture as well and you are a hypocrite if you do not follow this. Why would one thing out of the bible be more important than the other? right?

1. Corinthians 14:34-36 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

if your wife has ever spoken in church, is she going to hell? are you going there too for allowing it? If your wife has ever gone to church and has spoken, you are a hypocrite.

2. Timothy 2:11-15
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing.


If you allow your woman to speak without permission, then you are a hypocrite. If you have no kids then she hasn't been saved and she will rot in hell I guess.

3. Titus 2:4-5
Teach the young women to be ... obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.


if your women has ever disagreed with you and you allowed it, you are a hypocrite.

4. Matthew 15:4

For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’


so if your kid has ever cursed at you and if they are still alive, you are a hypocrite. (BUT PLEASE DO NOT TAKE THIS SERIOUSLY AND DONT LISTEN TO THIS BOOK OK, DONT KILL A CHILD. PLEASE)

5. Exodus 21:17

“Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death.


SAME THING AS #4, DONT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY AND KILL YOUR KID I KNOW SOME STUPID ****ERS TAKE THIS STUPID BOOK TO HEART. But you're still a hypocrite.

6. Exodus 21:20-21

And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished. Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.


You can beat your slaves, but they have to survive at least a day or 2.



should I go on?
Posts: 11,752
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Old 03-28-2013, 06:00 PM   #105
Bump Bump is offline
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Do these people even read this shit? I bet they look at the bible that they follow so dearly and say TL ; DR
Posts: 11,752
Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.Bump has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.
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