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Old 04-10-2013, 10:29 PM  
Taco John Taco John is offline
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Obama calls for cigarette tax hike of 94 cents a pack

At least he's paying it too, I suppose.


Obama calls for cigarette tax hike of 94 cents a pack

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) — President Obama’s call for a 94-cent-a-pack hike on federal cigarette taxes to fund early childhood education programs is controversial.

Anti-smoking groups applaud the proposal, but some tax experts and tobacco companies are against it.

The case for the tax. The tax is being presented as way to fund education and reduce smoking rates. It would raise roughly $78 billion over 10 years.
“The proposed tobacco tax increase would have substantial public health benefits, particularly for young Americans,” the president’s budget read. “Researchers have found that raising taxes on cigarettes significantly reduces consumption, with especially large effects on youth smoking.”

After a 62-cent-a-pack tax hike was passed in 2009, cigarette sales dropped by 10%, according to the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids.

There’s also little doubt that fewer people smoking is a good thing for society. Costs related to smoking amount to $193 billion a year in both direct medical payments and lost productivity, according to a Centers for Disease Control study done during the early part of the last decade. Smoking kills about 443,000 people each year.

Passing the tax “would be a giant step toward winning the fight against tobacco, the nation’s number one cause of preventable death,” Matthew Myers, president of the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids, said in a statement.
Why it may be a bad idea. The biggest argument against the tax is that it will fund early childhood education on the backs of the poor. Not only is the tax not progressive – it does not go up the more money one makes — but a higher percent of smokers are middle or low income.

The median household income for a smoker in 2011 was $27,700 compared to $45,761 for nonsmokers, according to Reynolds American, a cigarette maker which is, unsurprisingly, against the tax.

Nearly half of all smokers had a household income of less than $25,000 a year. Meanwhile, under 15% of smokers had a household income over $75,000.
“The idea of increasing taxes on low- to middle-income Americans at this time is ludicrous,” Bryan Hatchell, a spokesman for Reynolds American, said in a statement. “The effect of the payroll tax increase this year, along with higher gas and food prices, have hit hard millions of Americans who are simply trying to keep their heads above water financially.”

Anti-smoking groups counter that the poor are especially vulnerable to smoking’s ill effects, as they often lack healthcare and are less prepared financially to deal with an illness.

Cigarette taxes across the nation. Many smokers already pay a high tax rate for cigarettes. The current federal tax rate is $1.01 a pack, but the taxes don’t stop there. So Obama is proposing an increase to $1.95 a pack.
Some states and municipalities have also used cigarette taxes as a cash cow for years. In New York City, the country’s highest-tax area, combined state and local taxes add up to $5.85 a pack, according to the Campaign for Tobacco-Free Kids. In Manhattan, a pack of cigarettes can cost $14, while at an airport duty free shop they can be as low as $3 or $4 a pack.

But the taxes are low in other states. In Missouri, state taxes are just 17 cents a pack. The average price of a pack of cigarettes nationwide is $6, with taxes making up $2.49 of that.

Some economists question how wise it is to fund what will presumably be a long term program — early childhood education — with revenue that will likely fall over time. About 20% of Americans smoke, a number that has dropped considerably over the past several decades. The tax itself is specifically designed to get people to stop buying cigarettes.

Others say that while the tax won’t be to much of a burden on the overall economy, it will hit smokers and those that work in the industry hard. They say the president could raise far more money by focusing on spending cuts.
“It’s excellent politics, but it doesn’t make good economics,” said William McBride, chief economist at the Tax Foundation, a think tank that advocates for lower taxes.

http://wqad.com/2013/04/10/obama-cal...-cents-a-pack/
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:09 PM   #106
Cephalic Trauma Cephalic Trauma is offline
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Well, you probably won't read it but what the hey:

http://catholiceducation.org/article...thrisksSSA.pdf
The problem I have with studies that are affiliated with certain organizations is they have their mind made up before they write the paper.

Which is why I will not read it. Find something on pubmed or a credible source that shows health outcomes of gay men and their stress on our health system. Have fun.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:11 PM   #107
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Hmm interesting. Are these pack a day smokers, half-pack, I have one every now and then smokers? What were their lifestyles outside of smoking or non-smoking (control for exercise, healthy eating habits, other risky behaviors, etc)?

In other words, did they control for confounding variables in the study? And how many subjects did they have?

Thanks.
Who knows, I just thought it was funny and an opportunity to look at the situation from a different angle.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:15 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
See, and that's the thing. The point of my post is gay is not a choice (sexually dimorphic nucleus) and is not wrong because it is between two consenting adults.
You're talking about the preference. The behavior is still a choice.

I don't have any problem with gay behavior between consenting adults, fwiw.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:17 PM   #109
Comrade Crapski Comrade Crapski is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
The problem I have with studies that are affiliated with certain organizations is they have their mind made up before they write the paper.
Actually you're the one who has your mind made up before you even read it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post

Which is why I will not read it.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
Find something on pubmed or a credible source
credible source ie piss stream media

Seriously, you really think 60 minutes or the NY Times would report these medical facts?
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:23 PM   #110
Cephalic Trauma Cephalic Trauma is offline
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Originally Posted by FishingRod View Post
Who knows, I just thought it was funny and an opportunity to look at the situation from a different angle.
Yeah, looking up a random study without addressing potential confounders is easy. It's determining what was found and whether it is legitimate or not that's the hard part.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:25 PM   #111
Cephalic Trauma Cephalic Trauma is offline
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You're talking about the preference. The behavior is still a choice.

I don't have any problem with gay behavior between consenting adults, fwiw.
The preference is due to a biological variation in structure. The behavior is a manifestation of that variation.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:28 PM   #112
Cephalic Trauma Cephalic Trauma is offline
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Originally Posted by Comrade Crapski View Post
Actually you're the one who has your mind made up before you even read it.



Exactly.



credible source ie piss stream media

Seriously, you really think 60 minutes or the NY Times would report these medical facts?
The Catholic church fails to address homosexuality while taking scientific findings into account. Therefore, I did not read it because it is not worth my time. And one rogue MD does not mean the "study" is reliable.

When did pubmed become 60 minutes or NY Times? Save your straw man.
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:36 PM   #113
Comrade Crapski Comrade Crapski is offline
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Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
The Catholic church fails to address homosexuality while taking scientific findings into account.
How do you know that if you didn't read it?

Some footnotes:


The Gay and Lesbian Medical Association (GLMA)
recently published a press release entitled “Ten Things
Gay Men Should Discuss with Their Health Care
Providers” (July 17, 2002), www.glma.org/news/
releases/n02071710gaythings.html. The list includes:
HIV/AIDS (Safe Sex), Substance Use, Depression/
Anxiety, Hepatitis Immunization, STDs, Prostate/
Testicular/Colon Cancer, Alcohol, Tobacco, Fitness
and Anal Papilloma.
20
R. R. Wilcox, “Sexual Behaviour and Sexually
Transmitted Disease Patterns in Male Homosexuals,”
British Journal of Venereal Diseases
, 57(3): 167-169, 167 (1981).
21
Robert T. Michael, et al.,
Sex in America: a Definitive
Survey
, pp. 140-141, Table 11, Boston: Little, Brown, and
Co., 1994; Rotello, pp. 75-76.
22
Rotello, p. 92.
23
Jon M. Richards, J. Michael Bedford, and Steven S.
Witkin, “Rectal Insemination Modifies Immune Responses
in Rabbits,”
Science
, 27(224): 390-392 (1984).
24
S. S. Witkin and J. Sonnabend, “Immune Responses to
Spermatozoa in Homosexual Men,”
Fertility and Sterility
,
39(3): 337-342, pp. 340-341 (1983).
25
Anne Rompalo, “Sexually Transmitted Causes of
Gastrointestinal Symptoms in Homosexual Men,”
Medical
Clinics of North America
, 74(6): 1633-1645 (November 1990);
“Anal Health for Men and Women,”
LGBTHealthChannel
,
www.gayhealthchannel.com/analhealth/; “Safer Sex (MSM)
for Men who Have Sex with Men,”
LGBTHealthChannel
,
www.gayhealthchannel.com/stdmsm/.
26
“Resurgent Bacterial Sexually Transmitted Disease
Among Men Who Have Sex With Men—King County,
Washington, 1997-1999,”
Morbidity and Mortality Weekly
Report,
CDC, 48(35): 773-777 (September 10, 1999).
27
Heredia, “Big spike in cases of syphilis in S.F.: Gay, bisex-
ual men affected most.”
28
“Changing Patterns of Groups at High Risk for Hepatitis
B in the United States,”
Morbidity and Mortality Weekly
Report,
CDC, 37(28): 429-432, p. 437 (July 22, 1988).
Hepatitis B and C are viral diseases of the liver.
29
Edward O. Laumann, John H. Gagnon, et al.,
The social
organization of sexuality: Sexual practices in the United States
,
p. 293, Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1994;
Michael, et al., p. 176; David Forman and Clair Chilvers,
“Sexual Behavior of Young and Middle-Aged Men in
England and Wales,”
British Medical Journal,
298: 1137-1142
(1989); and Gary Remafedi, et al., “Demography of Sexual
Orientation in Adolescents,”
Pediatrics
, 89: 714-721 (1992).
See appendix A.
30
Mads Melbye, Charles Rabkin, et al.,

Changing
patterns of anal cancer incidence in the United
States, 1940-1989,”
American Journal of Epidemiology,
139: 772-780, p. 779, Table 2 (1994).
31
James Goedert, et al., for the AIDS-Cancer Match Study
Group, “Spectrum of AIDS-associated malignant disor-
ders,”
The Lancet,
351: 1833–1839, p. 1836 (June 20, 1998).
32
“Anal Health for Men and Women,”
LGBTHealthChannel
,
www.gayhealthchannel.com/analhealth/; J. E. Barone, et
al., “Management of Foreign Bodies and Trauma of the
Rectum,”
Surgery, Gynecology and Obstetrics,
156(4): 453-457
(April 1983).
33
Henry Kazal, et al., “The gay bowel syndrome: Clinico-
pathologic correlation in 260 cases,”
Annals of Clinical and
Laboratory Science
, 6(2): 184-192 (1976).
34
Glen E. Hastings and Richard Weber, “Use of the term
‘Gay Bowel Syndrome,’” reply to a letter to the editor,
American Family Physician
, 49(3): 582 (1994).
35
Ibid
.; E. K. Markell, et al., “Intestinal Parasitic Infections
in Homosexual Men at a San Francisco Health Fair,”
Western Journal of Medicine
, 139(2): 177-178 (August, 1983).
36
“Hepatitis A among Homosexual Men—United States,
Canada, and Australia,”
Morbidity and Mortality Weekly
Report,
CDC, 41(09): 155, 161-164 (March 06, 1992).
37
Rompalo, p. 1640.
38
H. Naher, B. Lenhard, e
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Old 04-11-2013, 01:59 PM   #114
patteeu patteeu is offline
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Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
The preference is due to a biological variation in structure. The behavior is a manifestation of that variation.
Again, the behavior is a choice in a way that skin color (and even sexual preference) is not.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:07 PM   #115
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Again, the behavior is a choice in a way that skin color (and even sexual preference) is not.
Sexual preference is not a choice, and you think the behavior is okay. Good, progress.

What exactly are you arguing here? Their primary tendencies toward the behavior are based on things they can't control, much like I can't control that I am a white, straight male.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:11 PM   #116
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What the hell man! It's already $8 a pack up here.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:12 PM   #117
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Originally Posted by Cephalic Trauma View Post
Sexual preference is not a choice, and you think the behavior is okay. Good, progress.

What exactly are you arguing here? Their primary tendencies toward the behavior are based on things they can't control, much like I can't control that I am a white, straight male.
Do we really have to keep going around and around like this. I keep acknowledging that sexual preference is not a choice. I did it in this very post that you quoted. Acting on that sexual preference IS a choice. The behavior is a choice. When you see an attractive woman (or man depending on your preference) on the street, do you immediately rape them or are you able to exercise some restraint?
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:13 PM   #118
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And so does everybody else.

Meaning, if you get COPD, Emphysema, cancer, etc. when you are older based on your own doing (smoking has a causal effect), the system will pay for you. Thus, you cost the system more in the long run by self-destructing now.

Same with obesity.
And where is your study showing that smokers cost tax payers more than nonsmokers? It's easy to say the Dutch study has flaws but you offer no study to back up your specious claims.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:14 PM   #119
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And where is your study showing that smokers cost tax payers more than nonsmokers? It's easy to say the Dutch study has flaws but you offer no study to back up your specious claims.
Anything that does not validate his preconceived ideology is dumped down the memory hole.
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Old 04-11-2013, 02:17 PM   #120
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Wait - isn't this "discrimination" against smokers? I was told during the gay marriage debates that we cannot "discriminate" against one group of Americans. Violates equal protection! It's anti-American! You don't pick on any group you deem inferior!



Well Libs? Explain yourselves now.
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