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Old 04-11-2013, 08:35 PM  
petegz28 petegz28 is offline
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Sebelius Tries To Blame GOP For Coming ObamaCare Failures

Health Care: As Democrats grow increasingly worried that ObamaCare will explode on the launch pad just as midterm elections get going, the Obama administration seeks to pin blame on Republicans. Good luck with that.

Earlier this week, Health and Human Services head Kathleen Sebelius admitted that she didn't realize how complicated getting ObamaCare off the ground would be.

Sebelius complained that "no one fully anticipated" the difficulties involved in implementing ObamaCare, or how confusing it would be with the public.

She wasn't talking about the massive and impossible task of imposing central planning on one-sixth of the nation's economy.

Instead, she was trying to find a way to blame Republicans for ObamaCare's failures when the inevitable problems start emerging.

Rather than say "let's get on board, let's make this work," recalcitrant Republicans have forced her to engage in "state-by-state political battles," Sebelius said at a Harvard School of Public Health forum. "The politics has been relentless."

So let's see if we get this. Democrats shoved an unpopular, expensive, ill-conceived and poorly written law down the country's throat with no Republican support, and without bothering to see whether states would want to take on the thankless and costly task of helping the feds implement it.

And now that many of these states are rebelling, it's the Republicans' fault?

Sebelius' fellow Democrat, West Virginia Sen. Jay Rockefeller, had a more accurate take on the problem the administration faces: the law is "probably the most complicated piece of legislation ever passed by the United States Congress" and "if it isn't done right the first time, it will just simply get worse."

Rockefeller, like a growing number of Democrats, realizes that ObamaCare is shaping up to be a political disaster for the party next November.

The influential Cook Political Report noted earlier this month that almost all of the Democratic insiders they talked to "voiced concern about the potential for the issue to hurt Democrats in 2014."

And just what could explain these concerns?

Maybe it's because even Sebelius now admits that ObamaCare will force insurance claims up 32%.

Or possibly it's because, despite endless assurances that the insurance exchanges would be ready on time, the administration had to delay for a year a key feature meant to give small business a choice of health plans.

Or because neither Sebelius nor the states have provided evidence they can get the rest of the exchanges ready by Oct. 1, when ObamaCare's open enrollment begins.

Or perhaps Democrats' fears stem from state insurance commissioners warning of a rate shock once ObamaCare's "community rating" rules and benefit mandates start. Or from rising evidence the law is hurting job growth as small businesses try to avoid its costs.

None of this, mind you, has anything to do with Republicans. And if the GOP were smart, it'd be focused on making sure that, come next November, the public knows that, too.


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Old 04-13-2013, 10:08 PM   #76
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
First off Kotter needs to know the definition of inflation, versus price increases due to a demand curve that is pushed by government trying to make healthcare more affordable. I mean a lot of things are more expensive today due to inflation, including healthcare. We pay more than double for everything we buy. But HC has risen more than inflation. Same with college education, again due to the govt trying to make it more affordable pushing up the demand curve artificially aka not based purely on market forces.
In fairness to him, I was the person who called it inflation first in this thread, but I agree with what you're saying.
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:22 PM   #77
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In fairness to him, I was the person who called it inflation first in this thread, but I agree with what you're saying.
Patty, I'm still dissappointed. (not merely for your 'agreement' with the website psycho.)...not that you give a damn--but neither do I; I'm just really trying to ask an honest question...but you keep dodging and weaving, due to the interference of established trolls.

Your prerogative....really? Okay, I suppose. I'm asking a simple question and pledged a good faith effort to reciprocate (one I'll endorse with a self-imposed ban, of a month or two--if you want.)

What is the real source of medical cost inflation?
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Old 04-13-2013, 10:37 PM   #78
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Medical cost inflation? The govt created Fed printing money.

Price increases? Govt interference in hc markets. Otherwise, prices would be head downwards and/or be more stable.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:48 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Patty, I'm still dissappointed. (not merely for your 'agreement' with the website psycho.)...not that you give a damn--but neither do I; I'm just really trying to ask an honest question...but you keep dodging and weaving, due to the interference of established trolls.

Your prerogative....really? Okay, I suppose. I'm asking a simple question and pledged a good faith effort to reciprocate (one I'll endorse with a self-imposed ban, of a month or two--if you want.)

What is the real source of medical cost inflation?
I'm not interested in playing your game. You made a stupid assertion about what's behind rising health care costs. I challenge you on it and now you want me to go first? I haven't even claimed to know (although I'm confident I have a better understanding than you), whereas you've already made a claim that you seem to be pretending was TIC now. I want to hear clearly from you whether it was a serious statement or just your normal thoughtless blather about rich people. If you don't want to play that game, I suggest we just go our separate ways and let your ridiculous comments hang in the wind for all to see.
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Old 04-14-2013, 08:52 AM   #80
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:57 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by patteeu View Post
I'm not interested in playing your game. You made a stupid assertion about what's behind rising health care costs. I challenge you on it and now you want me to go first? I haven't even claimed to know (although I'm confident I have a better understanding than you), whereas you've already made a claim that you seem to be pretending was TIC now. I want to hear clearly from you whether it was a serious statement or just your normal thoughtless blather about rich people. If you don't want to play that game, I suggest we just go our separate ways and let your ridiculous comments hang in the wind for all to see.
Hyperbole: The Chiefs are the worst team in the history of professional sports.

Underlying truth: The Chiefs have been pretty bad for a very long time in the NFL.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hyperbole: Out of control [healthcare] costs, [are] driven in large part, if not mostly, by windfall profits for asshole middle-men...

Underlying truth: Our healthcare system has too many middle-men who consistently put profits ahead of patient care.


So...unless that is somehow still unclear, will you please indulge me:

What is the real source of medical cost inflation?

I'm not asking for a dissertation; just a comprehensive, but concise, explanation of your view. As I said, I'll then respond in kind. I sincerely appreciate your efforts.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:04 AM   #82
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post

Hyperbole: Out of control [healthcare] costs, [are] driven in large part, if not mostly, by windfall profits for asshole middle-men...
Calls for emotion and relies on logical fallacy with the word "asshole."

Quote:
Underlying truth: Our healthcare system has too many middle-men who consistently put profits ahead of patient care.
Assertion does make this true. If anything govt policy has fed such middle-men's profits by gauranteeing them a market through mandates, where costs just get passed onto health consumers. The solution is competition—not more mandates.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:18 AM   #83
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Calls for emotion and relies on logical fallacy with the word "asshole."

Assertion does make this true. If anything govt policy has fed such middle-men's profits by gauranteeing them a market through mandates, where costs just get passed onto health consumers. The solution is competition—not more mandates.
I self-identified it as hyperbole...skip the phoney lecture. FTR though, asshole is quite apt for many of those middle men. Heh

However, some folks say that your explanation is precisely why single-payer (with opt-outs for those who can afford it?) should have been the reform instead of what we got, and would best deliver what you seek. Personally, I think that is way too drastic; but unless things change for the better soon...it may be the only real way out.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:27 AM   #84
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
I self-identified it as hyperbole...skip the phoney lecture. FTR though, asshole is quite apt for many of those middle men. Heh

However, some folks say that your explanation is precisely why single-payer (with opt-outs for those who can afford it?) should have been the reform instead of what we got, and would best deliver what you seek. Personally, I think that is way too drastic; but unless things change for the better soon...it may be the only real way out.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:48 AM   #85
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I self-identified it as hyperbole...skip the phoney lecture. FTR though, asshole is quite apt for many of those middle men. Heh
Well, my point was that it doesn't prove or provide evidence of anything you're claiming.

Quote:
However, some folks say that your explanation is precisely why single-payer (with opt-outs for those who can afford it?) should have been the reform instead of what we got, and would best deliver what you seek. Personally, I think that is way too drastic; but unless things change for the better soon...it may be the only real way out.
You mean what bests deliver what you seek...cheap but with less service and quality over time. I understand that.
Like what they have in Europe and the former Soviet Union.

What best delivers what I seek comes from the free market — where technology improves quality, service and where prices decline as a result over time or stabilizes because the demand curve is not pushed beyond supply. Where charity or religious hospitals took care of those who'd be turned away. ( but the progs wanted religion to decline so the omnipotent state could take its place)

Your side, the prog's, has been pushing for universal coverage long before there was any health care crisis. It goes back to earlier in the 20th century. Your side wrecked healthcare markets with your interference. I just hasn't worked. If it did we'd not be in the situation we're in now.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:35 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
Hyperbole: The Chiefs are the worst team in the history of professional sports.

Underlying truth: The Chiefs have been pretty bad for a very long time in the NFL.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hyperbole: Out of control [healthcare] costs, [are] driven in large part, if not mostly, by windfall profits for asshole middle-men...

Underlying truth: Our healthcare system has too many middle-men who consistently put profits ahead of patient care.


So...unless that is somehow still unclear, will you please indulge me:

What is the real source of medical cost inflation?

I'm not asking for a dissertation; just a comprehensive, but concise, explanation of your view. As I said, I'll then respond in kind. I sincerely appreciate your efforts.
So which is it? You don't know what you're talking about or you weren't really serious? Your straddle is a sham. I'm sticking with clueless. You can stop demanding that I lay out a serious analysis first. I have no interest ATM in discussing this with you.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:07 PM   #87
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So which is it? You don't know what you're talking about or you weren't really serious? Your straddle is a sham. I'm sticking with clueless. You can stop demanding that I lay out a serious analysis first. I have no interest ATM in discussing this with you.
So, you are saying then you deny that our healthcare system has too many middle-men who consistently put profits ahead of patient care?

Seriously? Based on that alone, you've lost all right to label anyone else clueless (other than TJ, I mean.)
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:17 PM   #88
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So, you are saying then you deny that our healthcare system has too many middle-men who consistently put profits ahead of patient care?

Seriously? Based on that alone, you've lost all right to label anyone else clueless (other than TJ, I mean.)
I'm saying that you're clueless about the cause of rapidly rising health care costs.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:32 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by Mr. Kotter View Post
So, you are saying then you deny that our healthcare system has too many middle-men who consistently put profits ahead of patient care?

Seriously? Based on that alone, you've lost all right to label anyone else clueless (other than TJ, I mean.)
Kotter has it figured out. It's those damn profits that are destroying this country. I say we pass a law making all profits illegal.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:42 PM   #90
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Kotter has it figured out. It's those damn profits that are destroying this country. I say we pass a law making all profits illegal.
Yep. It's profits and fat cats.
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