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Old 04-12-2013, 11:25 AM  
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Five Hard Changes Conservatives Need to Make

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It's high time that we conservatives accepted and embraced difficult realities

The British SAS has a motto: Who Dares Wins.

This is a motto American conservatives need to internalize. And here's how they can put it into action.



1. TAX POLICY

As part of a major debt deal centered on reforming entitlements, we should support the elimination of state and local tax deductions.

If we're to achieve a grand bargain, more revenue will have to be on the table. This isn't a statement of conservative treason; it's an uncomfortable but unassailable demand of political reality. The Democrats control the White House and the Senate. And compromising on tax revenue doesn't have to be a bad thing.

Florida has no state income tax. Conversely, in New York, there's a pretty hefty state income tax. But because a Floridian has far less state taxes with which to offset his federal tax bill, he is at a disadvantage to the New Yorker. In effect, the Floridian is subsidizing the New Yorker's tax bill. This is deeply unfair. Just as state residency does not define national identity, neither should it shape the responsibilities of citizenship. By removing these deductions, conservatives would achieve two key objectives. First, in producing around $580 billion over 10 years, conservatives would increase pressure on the president to make major entitlement reforms. Second, we'd draw a clearer contrast between high and low tax states.


2. NATIONAL SECURITY POLICY

We should accept Obama's 10-year defense spending proposals.

America greatest threat is our national debt. Accepting this reality, the president's proposal of $450 billion in 10-year cuts is difficult but doable. We could, for example, reform the military health care system and refocus our support towards veterans. We could downsize our footprint in Europe. We could reduce our civilian defense workforce. These proposals would strengthen our hand at the broader debt negotiating table. But they'd also give us the credibility to draw a line against the sequester defense cuts and any future defense cuts. And having previously shown our willingness to examine the defense books, we'd be able to make a much stronger case to the American people.

3. SOCIAL POLICY

America's incarceration system is a mess. By regularly imprisoning low-level offenders like drug users, we encourage lives of recidivism. This approach costs us dearly, both in our pockets and in our communities. We should refocus prison terms towards serial/violent offenders. Doing so would reduce the negative costs of our current system and would illustrate that compassionate conservatism is responsive and real.

4. POLITICAL RELATIONSHIPS

Both Republicans and Democrats love dipping into the cookie pot of patronage — and we must end the influence of these special interests. Consider the conservative relationship with the pharmaceutical lobby. True, this industry needs a profit incentive to develop the drugs from which we all benefit. But why should Americans subsidize the research and development that produces drugs that benefit the world? Take federal purchase agreements like that of Medicare Part D, a pernicious blend of protectionism and cronyism. If we're to be the purveyors of free markets, then we must avoid picking winners and losers. We should trust the market to do that.

5. IDENTITY POLITICS

Conservatives need to look in the mirror. We need to challenge orthodoxy, but without letting the conflict divide us. As Matt Lewis has pointed out, two top conservative media outlets aren't exactly best buddies at the moment. Karl Rove and Newt Gingrich don't seem too happy with each other. And the list goes on. Gay Marriage? Immigration? Ours is a movement divided.

We must resist the temptation to retreat into pockets of subjective ideological purity. By listening and debating, we can find the strains of consistency that bind us. And from this foundation, we'll be in a far better place to forge new consensus in our areas of division.
http://news.yahoo.com/5-hard-changes...102000206.html
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Old 04-13-2013, 07:39 AM   #16
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Entire tax code needs to be revamped. And legalize weed.
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Old 04-13-2013, 11:05 AM   #17
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Stop being stupid and racist, that'll help
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:44 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
This is a terrible list. As a moderate-leaning conservative, here's mine:

1. Stop blasting people, start focusing on the politics - The GOP wonders why they have a hispanic and female problem. Changing immigration and birth control/abortion policy isn't going to achieve that. It's the comments about implying or saying directly in public that hispanics are freeloaders and women are whores. And then the GOP leadership passive aggressively rejects those comments, so it sounds like they're letting it slide. Let's be real here... african-americans, hispanics, women, and gays are voting unanimously against conservatives. Stop criticizing teachers, firefighters, cops, etc... and focus instead on educational and public sector policy.

2. Choose your battles - Politics is about negotiation. It's not about jamming everything you want down somebody's throat. To get entitlement reform, you have to act like you're compromising something in exchange. But the new Republicans won't do that. Instead, they rubber stamp everything Obama puts forward and look like they're being unreasonable. And so, you have a President who should be wildly unpopular, but his popularity is only dropping slightly because the Republicans are just as unpopular.

3. Scale back the rhetoric - Last election cycle, the Republicans had a huge opportunity in that much of the general public believed government was getting out of control. But rather than take advantage, the Republicans instead chose to push an extreme platform that appeals to a microscopic part of the population. The problem is that many people want cuts in government spending, waste, and regulation. They don't want a chainsaw or machete. But that's exactly the reputation the GOP has built and so people don't embrace these ideas, they cower at them.

4. Try to change the image. Let's face it, the party's reputation is that they are old elitist white men who aren't open to people who aren't white, male, or rich. Many of the most vocal in leadership or strategists are out of touch dinosaurs. Tucker Carlson wears a bowtie. Republican leaders and strategists, often young or old, have either been so rich for so long or they grew up in money, so they're completely disconnected from the middle class. That reputation has to change.

5. Most obvious. Stop letting the religious right dictate GOP policy. They are an important vote to win, but they piss off way too many people outside of the base.
Very solid, reasonable list. Nice job.
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Old 04-13-2013, 12:51 PM   #19
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Stop being stupid and racist, that'll help
I can't tell if you mean Republicans or Democrats...
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It was mind boggling watching those guys run out of bounds again and again and again. I still can't believe it.
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:06 PM   #20
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Yeah. Democrats would start voting for them. Great plan.
Independent thinkers who care about tax policy and defense but don't want religious nuts driving the discussion might start voting for them.
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:22 PM   #21
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Point 1 - I'm not sure I agree with the math. I guess Florida is subsidizing New York on a federal level, but they're still ahead of the game. The system is harder on New Yorkers than Floridians.

Point 2. Agreed. Time to scale back our international presence.

Point 3. Agreed, and this has been a long-evolving change in my own thinking.

Point 4. I don't know enough about that to comment.

Point 5. Whatever. Don't be stupid is probably a better way to put it.
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Old 04-13-2013, 01:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
This is a terrible list. As a moderate-leaning conservative, here's mine:

1. Stop blasting people, start focusing on the politics - The GOP wonders why they have a hispanic and female problem. Changing immigration and birth control/abortion policy isn't going to achieve that. It's the comments about implying or saying directly in public that hispanics are freeloaders and women are whores. And then the GOP leadership passive aggressively rejects those comments, so it sounds like they're letting it slide. Let's be real here... african-americans, hispanics, women, and gays are voting unanimously against conservatives. Stop criticizing teachers, firefighters, cops, etc... and focus instead on educational and public sector policy.

2. Choose your battles - Politics is about negotiation. It's not about jamming everything you want down somebody's throat. To get entitlement reform, you have to act like you're compromising something in exchange. But the new Republicans won't do that. Instead, they rubber stamp everything Obama puts forward and look like they're being unreasonable. And so, you have a President who should be wildly unpopular, but his popularity is only dropping slightly because the Republicans are just as unpopular.

3. Scale back the rhetoric - Last election cycle, the Republicans had a huge opportunity in that much of the general public believed government was getting out of control. But rather than take advantage, the Republicans instead chose to push an extreme platform that appeals to a microscopic part of the population. The problem is that many people want cuts in government spending, waste, and regulation. They don't want a chainsaw or machete. But that's exactly the reputation the GOP has built and so people don't embrace these ideas, they cower at them.

4. Try to change the image. Let's face it, the party's reputation is that they are old elitist white men who aren't open to people who aren't white, male, or rich. Many of the most vocal in leadership or strategists are out of touch dinosaurs. Tucker Carlson wears a bowtie. Republican leaders and strategists, often young or old, have either been so rich for so long or they grew up in money, so they're completely disconnected from the middle class. That reputation has to change.

5. Most obvious. Stop letting the religious right dictate GOP policy. They are an important vote to win, but they piss off way too many people outside of the base.

Point 1. Agreed. They need to address the issues and separate them from the people.

Point 2. Agreed. The Republicans have had the dumbest strategy possible. Absolutely could not be dumber. If Obama is that bad, let him slit his own throat over four years and damage the Democrats. Having the Republicans fight every single thing to the death makes them look terrible and gives Obama an out. Stupid, stupid Republicans.

Point 3. Eh. I think it's more about their actions than their rhetoric.

Point 4. Yeah, but you can't change the image without changing the actions. This will happen naturally or not at all.

Point 5. Agreed. The Republican Party cowtows to the people who won't vote Democrat anyway. Cater to the middle that's the swing vote. It seems so obvious.
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Old 04-14-2013, 11:19 AM   #23
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I can't tell if you mean Republicans or Democrats...

The Democrats have fully embraced racial identity politics and are finally starting to see the fruits thereof. From 1965-2010 it harmed them as the GOP used it to secure the South. Now, with the full effects of 50 years of massive immigration, it's working great for the DNC as they run up massive margins in the urban cores.

They're not going to ever stop calling the GOP "racist" while simultaneously going on tv ads in minority areas and race baiting. It's their #1 play in their playbook.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:53 PM   #24
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The Democrats have fully embraced racial identity politics and are finally starting to see the fruits thereof. From 1965-2010 it harmed them as the GOP used it to secure the South. Now, with the full effects of 50 years of massive immigration, it's working great for the DNC as they run up massive margins in the urban cores.

They're not going to ever stop calling the GOP "racist" while simultaneously going on tv ads in minority areas and race baiting. It's their #1 play in their playbook.
holy shit, it's TRUE.

It's the biggest thing they got - no WONDER they've created this weird social vaccum that we're all forced to endure...

Like, I'm half Indian, half German...not really a bleeding heart. And people get MAD at me because I don't believe in racism.

I tell them 'it really doesn't exist to me' - and they YELL at me 'what about Trayvon Martin!!?? That isn't REAL to you???!!!'

And I say 'no, not really. If I didn't have internet or cable tv, I would never have known about it. And the media sensationalizes everything to the point that it isn't even real.'

This chick SCREAMED at me, called me 'a racist sonofbitch' and punched the wall of the building we were by...and broke her ****ing hand!! All the while calling me names and blaming me and Bush and every white American male for the misery of the world...

that's my experience with liberals.
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It was mind boggling watching those guys run out of bounds again and again and again. I still can't believe it.
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Old 04-14-2013, 01:56 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
This is a terrible list. As a moderate-leaning conservative, here's mine:

1. Stop blasting people, start focusing on the politics - The GOP wonders why they have a hispanic and female problem. Changing immigration and birth control/abortion policy isn't going to achieve that. It's the comments about implying or saying directly in public that hispanics are freeloaders and women are whores. And then the GOP leadership passive aggressively rejects those comments, so it sounds like they're letting it slide. Let's be real here... african-americans, hispanics, women, and gays are voting unanimously against conservatives. Stop criticizing teachers, firefighters, cops, etc... and focus instead on educational and public sector policy.

2. Choose your battles - Politics is about negotiation. It's not about jamming everything you want down somebody's throat. To get entitlement reform, you have to act like you're compromising something in exchange. But the new Republicans won't do that. Instead, they rubber stamp everything Obama puts forward and look like they're being unreasonable. And so, you have a President who should be wildly unpopular, but his popularity is only dropping slightly because the Republicans are just as unpopular.

3. Scale back the rhetoric - Last election cycle, the Republicans had a huge opportunity in that much of the general public believed government was getting out of control. But rather than take advantage, the Republicans instead chose to push an extreme platform that appeals to a microscopic part of the population. The problem is that many people want cuts in government spending, waste, and regulation. They don't want a chainsaw or machete. But that's exactly the reputation the GOP has built and so people don't embrace these ideas, they cower at them.

4. Try to change the image. Let's face it, the party's reputation is that they are old elitist white men who aren't open to people who aren't white, male, or rich. Many of the most vocal in leadership or strategists are out of touch dinosaurs. Tucker Carlson wears a bowtie. Republican leaders and strategists, often young or old, have either been so rich for so long or they grew up in money, so they're completely disconnected from the middle class. That reputation has to change.

5. Most obvious. Stop letting the religious right dictate GOP policy. They are an important vote to win, but they piss off way too many people outside of the base.
This is a very good list. And you are spot on with #5. It seems they are happy to take the religious right votes at the expense of the voter they cant quite determine. Theyre certain they come out on top in that exchange, but I think the number of votes lost by aligning so tight with the religious right would shock them. And that one issue alone could be the deal breaker for some of those voters.

Many people feel gays should just stay in the closet and keep their mouths shut. They dont want to see or hear about it.

Well, many people feel the same about religious bible thumpers who seem to always have face time in GOP politics. The GOP is obviously oblivious to this. Its really silly to forfeit votes in exchange for votes your going to get anyway.
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Old 04-14-2013, 02:48 PM   #26
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Well, many people feel the same about religious bible thumpers who seem to always have face time in GOP politics. The GOP is obviously oblivious to this. Its really silly to forfeit votes in exchange for votes your going to get anyway.
And there you go.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:17 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
2. Choose your battles - Politics is about negotiation. It's not about jamming everything you want down somebody's throat.
This is an odd selection, since the GOP caves in all the time or most of the time. They're mostly rhetoric on the conservative points to get elected but moderate otherwise. You need to figure that out or at least see what happens. It's okay for the Democrats to jam what they want down our throats, like Obamacare, though. Seriously, you must live under a rock to say this. We keep moving inexorably toward more socialism/fascism aka facialism with more ripping apart of our Constitution and you advocate even less integrity.

Sheesh! It's time to stem the tide. We're bankrupt!
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:50 PM   #28
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Like, I'm half Indian, half German...not really a bleeding heart. And people get MAD at me because I don't believe in racism.
On a completely unrelated note, I went to grad school with a woman who I always assumed was Iranian or Lebanese or some such background. Her skin tone and facial features definitely looked near east, but she had blue eyes which made me think she wasn't a classic middle eastern woman. After a year or so, I discovered that she was half Indian, half German. It amazed me because her physical characteristics matched the people who live roughly halfway between India and Germany. She was a great case study on global migration and interaction.

I hope that's not racist or anything, by the way.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:40 PM   #29
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This is an odd selection, since the GOP caves in all the time or most of the time. They're mostly rhetoric on the conservative points to get elected but moderate otherwise. You need to figure that out or at least see what happens. It's okay for the Democrats to jam what they want down our throats, like Obamacare, though. Seriously, you must live under a rock to say this. We keep moving inexorably toward more socialism/fascism aka facialism with more ripping apart of our Constitution and you advocate even less integrity.

Sheesh! It's time to stem the tide. We're bankrupt!
We went through 8 years of Clinton, 8 years of a Republican President who didn't care about fiscal conservatism, followed by 5 years of Obama. The problem is that even when Conservatives held power, they were too busy pushing for new spending. Iraq was the Conservatives' version of Obamacare.

I don't live under a rock. You must live under a rock if you actually think the Republicans are making themselves look good in their staunch opposition to anything Obama puts forward. Obama's numbers are sliding, but Congress looks even worse. I am not advocating for less integrity. I am talking about choosing your battles. You aren't going to win 100 battles on spending cuts. So you got put all your eggs in something like entitlement reform, even if that means compromising principals somewhere else. But that's not the conservatives' game.
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Old 04-14-2013, 07:46 PM   #30
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We went through 8 years of Clinton, 8 years of a Republican President who didn't care about fiscal conservatism, followed by 5 years of Obama. The problem is that even when Conservatives held power, they were too busy pushing for new spending. Iraq was the Conservatives' version of Obamacare.

I don't live under a rock. You must live under a rock if you actually think the Republicans are making themselves look good in their staunch opposition to anything Obama puts forward.
That's why they caved in on tax increases with more coming? Sorry, but your claim of staunch opposition to "anything Obama puts forward." ( bad last word there) is totally bogus. It's all rhetoric.

Quote:
Obama's numbers are sliding, but Congress looks even worse.
Last I read, the numbers on Congress moved up a bit. But it's a ridiculous comparison because saying Congress is a generality, when Obama is one man. It's easy for people to say that about Congress as a collective, but many still like their own Congressman.

Quote:
I am not advocating for less integrity. I am talking about choosing your battles. You aren't going to win 100 battles on spending cuts.
That's why we never get any.

Yep! You live under a rock.
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