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Old 04-19-2013, 12:01 AM  
cdcox cdcox is offline
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Albert/Joeckel perspective

How would you feel if the Chiefs had the #2 overall pick and packaged it and Albert for Joeckel? Because that's what the Chiefs are on the brink of doing.

#1 pick = 3000 points
#54 pick = 360 points

difference is 2640 points

#2 pick is worth 2600 points

Chiefs are going to invest 3000 - 360 = 2640 points to replace Albert with Joeckel. It could be a good deal for the Chiefs if 1) Albert is out of the league in two years, 2) Jockel is a HOFer and 3) the alternatives (like Geno) don't have very good careers.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:33 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
Mother of Pearl, PLEASE stop with the outdated ****ing value chart.
It's not outdated.

How many times should I post the breakdowns from LAST YEARS DRAFT TRADES that show how teams followed the draft value chart really closely.

The only two that didn't were the RG3 and Richardson trades...the rest followed the chart.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:34 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
Would you rather have:

Albert and ______ or Joeckel and 54?
When a guy can't work out a new deal with two completely different front offices, him staying is a rather unlikely part of the equation. Thus, the question should actually be this. Would you rather have:

Bowe on the franchise tag, Joeckel, and Albert leaving without us getting a single thing in return

or

Bowe re-signed, Joeckel, and a 2nd round pick for Albert?
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:35 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
Would you rather have:

Albert and ______ or Joeckel and 54?

Put any of top 15 prospects in the blank and tell me this is a good trade.
Well... all of this assumes that Branden Albert is re-signable, even if we tried. Or that his asking price isn't completely unreasonable.

Let's also not rule out KC perhaps setting the price for Albert, so he can cut his demands.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:38 AM   #19
Tribal Warfare Tribal Warfare is offline
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I'm going to be honest, I won't accept the Joeckel pick unless he's on a HOF level within 2 to 3 years and there's no way around it. Since he's an excellent technician with immaculate footwork for an OT.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:39 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRock View Post
When a guy can't work out a new deal with two completely different front offices, him staying is a rather unlikely part of the equation. Thus, the question should actually be this. Would you rather have:

Bowe on the franchise tag, Joeckel, and Albert leaving without us getting a single thing in return

or

Bowe re-signed, Joeckel, and a 2nd round pick for Albert?
What's interesting about your point is that we're beating the shit out of the Chiefs for decisions other teams don't want to make either.

If Geno was a consensus #1, the Chiefs wouldn't be begging to get rid of 1.1. The trade comp for Albert isn't unreasonable. The main reason he hasn't been traded yet is money. If the Dolphins don't want to pay him, that tells you his salary demands are too high. If they do trade for him, it will be interesting to see how reasonable his salary is.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:40 AM   #21
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BossChief View Post
It's not outdated.

How many times should I post the breakdowns from LAST YEARS DRAFT TRADES that show how teams followed the draft value chart really closely.

The only two that didn't were the RG3 and Richardson trades...the rest followed the chart.
It IS outdated.

JFC.

So, you and ALL of your buddies have SPAMMED this forum with "It's CHEAP to take a QB" because of the new CBA, right?

But, you're going to say that compensation should remain the same?

What the ****?

I don't give a flying **** what Washington gave up for RGIII. Any team that is going to demand the same compensation Pre-2011 CBA as Post 2011 CBA is smoking crack.

ANY salesman worth his salt would say "**** off".

New rules.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:41 AM   #22
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is offline
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Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare View Post
I'm going to honest I won't accept the Joeckel pick unless he's on a HOF level within 2 to 3 years no way around it. Since he's an excellent technician with immaculate footwork for an OT.
If Joeckel ends up being a solid starter and we get a QB in 1-2 years better than Geno Smith, would you care about the Joeckel pick?
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:42 AM   #23
cdcox cdcox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigRock View Post
When a guy can't work out a new deal with two completely different front offices, him staying is a rather unlikely part of the equation. Thus, the question should actually be this. Would you rather have:

Bowe on the franchise tag, Joeckel, and Albert leaving without us getting a single thing in return

or

Bowe re-signed, Joeckel, and a 2nd round pick for Albert?
I'll take the deal the Dolphins sign Albert to. You have one reriem that was incompetent and another one that seems to have locked on to one player, regardless of whether the sum of the transactions surrounding that player are likely to improve the team during the next 3 years.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:43 AM   #24
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
I'll take the deal the Dolphins sign Albert to. You have one reriem that was incompetent and another one that seems to have locked on to one player, regardless of whether the sum of the transactions surrounding that player are likely to improve the team during the next 3 years.
Sorry, this post is a cluster****.

What?
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:44 AM   #25
Tribal Warfare Tribal Warfare is offline
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Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
If Joeckel ends up being a solid starter and we get a QB in 1-2 years better than Geno Smith, would you care about the Joeckel pick?

No, and how do we know KC will pick a QB since Smith and Daniel are anointed 1st and 2nd string on the depth chart.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:44 AM   #26
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I suppose the Chiefs could also come out on top if

1) Joeckel/Fisher are good players. They aren't total busts.
2) Alex Smith unprecedentedly plays leaps better than even his last two seasons in San Francisco
3) The 2nd rounder we get from the Dolphins turns out to be a pretty damn good player
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:46 AM   #27
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare View Post
No, and how do we know KC will pick a QB since Smith and Daniel are anointed 1st and 2nd string on the depth chart.
With needs at safety, ILB, TE and WR depth, I'd be surprised if they took a QB this year, unless they absolutely love a guy.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:48 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Tribal Warfare View Post
No, and how do we know KC will pick a QB since Smith and Daniel are anointed 1st and 2nd string on the depth chart.
I don't know. I do know that Reid and Dorsey have a history of drafting a lot of QBs, there have been rumors that they like Tyler Wilson, and that neither Smith nor Daniel have long-term deals.

But to the main point... I don't get it. Isn't the only reason people don't want Joeckel because they want Geno? If we end up with a better QB than Geno, than what did we lose?
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:50 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
Sorry, this post is a cluster****.

What?
Let me try again.

1. I'm suspecting that the Dolphins will sign Albert to a reasonable deal. I'd take that deal for the Chiefs.
2. Big Rock argued that Albert was unsignable based on inability of the last two front offices to sign him. My response:

a. Pioli was incompetent
b. Reid/Dorsey seem to be locked in on Joeckel. And willing to create a spot to for him, even if doing so won't make the Cheifs markedly better over the next 3 years.

I don't think these two cases prove that Albert is unsignable.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:50 AM   #30
Tribal Warfare Tribal Warfare is offline
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With needs at safety, ILB, TE and WR depth, I'd be surprised if they took a QB this year, unless they absolutely love a guy.
yep, I could see them go for a QB in the 5th( being very generous) to UDFA
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