Home Mail MemberMap Chat (0) Wallpapers
Go Back   ChiefsPlanet > The Ed & Dave Lounge

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 04-18-2013, 11:01 PM  
cdcox cdcox is offline
www.nfl-forecast.com
 
cdcox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Casino cash: $11390261
Albert/Joeckel perspective

How would you feel if the Chiefs had the #2 overall pick and packaged it and Albert for Joeckel? Because that's what the Chiefs are on the brink of doing.

#1 pick = 3000 points
#54 pick = 360 points

difference is 2640 points

#2 pick is worth 2600 points

Chiefs are going to invest 3000 - 360 = 2640 points to replace Albert with Joeckel. It could be a good deal for the Chiefs if 1) Albert is out of the league in two years, 2) Jockel is a HOFer and 3) the alternatives (like Geno) don't have very good careers.
Posts: 31,323
cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 11:53 PM   #31
chiefzilla1501 chiefzilla1501 is online now
MVP
 

Join Date: Aug 2008
Casino cash: $128804
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNR View Post
I suppose the Chiefs could also come out on top if

1) Joeckel/Fisher are good players. They aren't total busts.
2) Alex Smith unprecedentedly plays leaps better than even his last two seasons in San Francisco
3) The 2nd rounder we get from the Dolphins turns out to be a pretty damn good player
If the Chiefs find a better QB than Geno, and Joeckel isn't a bust, the Chiefs did fine on their pick. I'm not saying that will be easy. But let's stop twisting the argument. People aren't against Joeckel as much as they are against the idea of passing on Geno.
Posts: 19,872
chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.chiefzilla1501 is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 11:53 PM   #32
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
Band
 
DaneMcCloud's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The 'Wood
Casino cash: $10138218
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
I don't think these two cases prove that Albert is unsignable.
I don't think it's a matter of sign-ability with the Chiefs. It think it's a matter of compatibility.

Albert is absolutely overrated by 99% of this forum.

Time to move on.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Smith HATER View Post
Geno > Cam
Quote:
Originally Posted by gochiefs(exceptQB) View Post
Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
Posts: 48,886
DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 11:56 PM   #33
Tribal Warfare Tribal Warfare is offline
The Boom Boom Room
 
Tribal Warfare's Avatar
 

Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Far Beyond Comprehension
Casino cash: $1079032
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
I

But to the main point... I don't get it. Isn't the only reason people don't want Joeckel because they want Geno? If we end up with a better QB than Geno, than what did we lose?
I'm not in the Geno or bust group but I want an impact player. (QB,Pass Rusher, WR,CB)

Joeckel will have to be on the same level as Roaf when comes to pure dominance. It's what that draft slot demands.
__________________
Posts: 28,304
Tribal Warfare is too fat/Omaha.Tribal Warfare is too fat/Omaha.Tribal Warfare is too fat/Omaha.Tribal Warfare is too fat/Omaha.Tribal Warfare is too fat/Omaha.Tribal Warfare is too fat/Omaha.Tribal Warfare is too fat/Omaha.Tribal Warfare is too fat/Omaha.Tribal Warfare is too fat/Omaha.Tribal Warfare is too fat/Omaha.Tribal Warfare is too fat/Omaha.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-18-2013, 11:59 PM   #34
cdcox cdcox is offline
www.nfl-forecast.com
 
cdcox's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2000
Casino cash: $11390261
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501 View Post
If the Chiefs find a better QB than Geno, and Joeckel isn't a bust, the Chiefs did fine on their pick. I'm not saying that will be easy. But let's stop twisting the argument. People aren't against Joeckel as much as they are against the idea of passing on Geno.
Albert + Jordan > Joeckel
Albert + Warmack > Joeckel
Albert + Jones > Joeckel
Albert + Milliner > Joeckel
Posts: 31,323
cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.cdcox has parlayed a career as a truck driver into debt free trailer and jon boat ownership.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:01 AM   #35
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
Band
 
DaneMcCloud's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The 'Wood
Casino cash: $10138218
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
Albert + Jordan > Joeckel
Albert + Warmack > Joeckel
Albert + Jones > Joeckel
Albert + Milliner > Joeckel
Complete speculation
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Smith HATER View Post
Geno > Cam
Quote:
Originally Posted by gochiefs(exceptQB) View Post
Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
Posts: 48,886
DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:02 AM   #36
Count Zarth Count Zarth is online now
Emperor of the Universe
 
Count Zarth's Avatar
 

Join Date: Nov 2002
Casino cash: $10244409
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdcox View Post
Albert + Jordan > Joeckel
Albert + Warmack > Joeckel
Albert + Jones > Joeckel
Albert + Milliner > Joeckel
This x eleventy.

There is no defense for the pissing away of 1.1.
Posts: 165,928
Count Zarth is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Zarth is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Zarth is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Zarth is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Zarth is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Zarth is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Zarth is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Zarth is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Zarth is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Zarth is obviously part of the inner Circle.Count Zarth is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:07 AM   #37
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
Emptying the Trash
 
'Hamas' Jenkins's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Casino cash: $199501
Drafting Luke Joeckel would be markedly worse than the Tyson Jackson pick. Jackson at least filled a legitimate need, not one the FO created through their own dipshittery.
__________________
A great shot is when you pull it off. A smart shot is when you don't have the guts to try.
Posts: 57,438
'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:13 AM   #38
ChiefsCountry ChiefsCountry is online now
MVP
 
ChiefsCountry's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Lake of the Ozarks
Casino cash: $673331
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
Mother of Pearl, PLEASE stop with the outdated ****ing value chart.
Dane,

The teams followed the chart on the first round trades last year.

Jaguars/Bucs
#5 (1700) for #7(1500) and #101(96)
1700 for 1596

Cowboys/Rams
#6 (1600) for #14(1100) and #45(450)
1600 for 1550

Eagles/Seahawks
#12 (1200) for #15(1050), #114(66), and #172(22)
1200 for 1138

Pats/Bengals
#21 (800) for #27 (680) and #93 (128)
800 for 808

Pats/Broncos
#25 (720) for #31 (600) and #126(46)
720 for 646

Vikings/Ravens
#29 (640) for #35(550) and #98(108)
640 for 658

Bucs/Broncos
#31 (600) and #126(46) and #36(540) and #101(96)
646 for 636
Posts: 27,806
ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:14 AM   #39
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
Band
 
DaneMcCloud's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The 'Wood
Casino cash: $10138218
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
Drafting Luke Joeckel would be markedly worse than the Tyson Jackson pick. Jackson at least filled a legitimate need, not one the FO created through their own dipshittery.
I strongly disagree.

Tyson Jackson was an awful pick for numerous reasons. Two down player, 5 tech, passing on Elite talent (Matthews, Harvin, etc.) and forcing an entire defensive shift. And ***** most certainly created that "hole" through personal amount of dipshittery.

Joeckel/Fisher would fill a need created by the trade of Albert. Let's face it: The promise of Albert's rookie season went unfulfilled his subsequent four seasons.

Haley made him lose weight, which caused him to lose confidence. His 2009 was shaky at best and while he played better in 2010, he wasn't a Pro Bowler, let alone All-Pro.

He's a guy that's slightly above average. He's probably closer to John Tait than John Alt and he's no where near "Elite". At nearly 29 years of age and a new regime, I'm fine with him moving on.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Smith HATER View Post
Geno > Cam
Quote:
Originally Posted by gochiefs(exceptQB) View Post
Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
Posts: 48,886
DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:16 AM   #40
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
Band
 
DaneMcCloud's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The 'Wood
Casino cash: $10138218
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry View Post
Dane,

The teams followed the chart on the first round trades last year.
I'm not stating that teams haven't held true to the draft chart: I'm stating that it should be no longer relevant.

Football people are ****ing dumb. It's a network of "friends". Once one of these dumbshits figure out that the value has decreased radically due to the new CBA, they'll all fall in line.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Smith HATER View Post
Geno > Cam
Quote:
Originally Posted by gochiefs(exceptQB) View Post
Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
Posts: 48,886
DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:18 AM   #41
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
Emptying the Trash
 
'Hamas' Jenkins's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Casino cash: $199501
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
I strongly disagree.

Tyson Jackson was an awful pick for numerous reasons. Two down player, 5 tech, passing on Elite talent (Matthews, Harvin, etc.) and forcing an entire defensive shift.

Joeckel/Fisher would fill a need created by the trade of Albert. Let's face it: The promise of Albert's rookie season went unfullfilled his subsequent four seasons.

Haley made him lose weight, which caused him to lose confidence. His 2009 was shaky at best and while he played better in 2010, he wasn't a Pro Bowler, let alone All-Pro.

He's a guy that's slightly above average. He's probably closer to John Tait than John Alt and he's no where near "Elite". At nearly 29 years of age and a new regime, I'm fine with him moving on.
They would fill a need created by the trade of an established player who plays at a high level. A created need.

It's the very definition of one step forward and two steps back.

Would you support trading Jamaal Charles for a 2nd and then using that pick on a back?

That would also fill a created need.
__________________
A great shot is when you pull it off. A smart shot is when you don't have the guts to try.
Posts: 57,438
'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:19 AM   #42
ChiefsCountry ChiefsCountry is online now
MVP
 
ChiefsCountry's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Lake of the Ozarks
Casino cash: $673331
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud View Post
I'm not stating that teams haven't held true to the draft chart: I'm stating that it should be no longer relevant.

Football people are ****ing dumb. It's a network of "friends". Once one of these dumbshits figure out that the value has decreased radically due to the new CBA, they'll all fall in line.
The chart is from Jimmy Johnson era which is Plan B free agency and before the big money rookies, its came full circle where its probably back to being more accurate.
Posts: 27,806
ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.ChiefsCountry is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:21 AM   #43
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
Band
 
DaneMcCloud's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The 'Wood
Casino cash: $10138218
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins View Post
They would fill a need created by the trade of an established player who plays at a high level. A created need.

It's the very definition of one step forward and two steps back.

Would you support trading Jamaal Charles for a 2nd and then using that pick on a back?

That would also fill a created need.
Of course not.

But I don't there's a single person in the league that feels that Brendan Albert equals Jamaal Charles.

Furthermore, Joeckel is at least 8 years younger and $5 million per less than Albert. All things being equal in terms of play, there is a benefit to moving him, not to mention the fact that Albert has stated unequivocally that he will not play any position other than left tackle, regardless of salary.

I don't know about you but if I walked into a new situation and I could move that guy, he's gone.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Smith HATER View Post
Geno > Cam
Quote:
Originally Posted by gochiefs(exceptQB) View Post
Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
Posts: 48,886
DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:21 AM   #44
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
Band
 
DaneMcCloud's Avatar
 

Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: The 'Wood
Casino cash: $10138218
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry View Post
The chart is from Jimmy Johnson era which is Plan B free agency and before the big money rookies, its came full circle where its probably back to being more accurate.
Right, which makes it even more irrelevant today.

Any team that's willing to pay those outdated rates is foolish.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Smith HATER View Post
Geno > Cam
Quote:
Originally Posted by gochiefs(exceptQB) View Post
Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
Posts: 48,886
DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.DaneMcCloud is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2013, 12:27 AM   #45
'Hamas' Jenkins 'Hamas' Jenkins is offline
Emptying the Trash
 
'Hamas' Jenkins's Avatar
 

Join Date: Jan 2006
Casino cash: $199501
Although Charles is an unquestionably better player than Albert, their trade value is probably near equal.

That said, Branden Albert is a better LT than the majority of starters who have played in the last five Super Bowls. He's not a problem. If you are renovating a house you don't tear out five year old, perfectly good copper pipes and replace them with new ones, especially if the new pipes won't lead to a demonstrable increase in water pressure or flow.

Furthermore, why wouldn't Albert say he's only going to play LT? It's the most important position on the line and he does it really, really well. Would you move a hitter with a .920 OPS from the 3 hole to the 7 hole? You could, but what purpose would it serve? What is the point of moving Branden Albert to any other position on the line?
__________________
A great shot is when you pull it off. A smart shot is when you don't have the guts to try.
Posts: 57,438
'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.'Hamas' Jenkins is obviously part of the inner Circle.
  Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.