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Old 04-18-2013, 11:01 PM  
cdcox cdcox is offline
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Albert/Joeckel perspective

How would you feel if the Chiefs had the #2 overall pick and packaged it and Albert for Joeckel? Because that's what the Chiefs are on the brink of doing.

#1 pick = 3000 points
#54 pick = 360 points

difference is 2640 points

#2 pick is worth 2600 points

Chiefs are going to invest 3000 - 360 = 2640 points to replace Albert with Joeckel. It could be a good deal for the Chiefs if 1) Albert is out of the league in two years, 2) Jockel is a HOFer and 3) the alternatives (like Geno) don't have very good careers.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:23 AM   #76
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Dane has Stockholm Syndrome.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:24 AM   #77
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Originally Posted by keg in kc View Post
Dane has Stockholm Syndrome.


Due to too many years as a Chiefs fan.
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Geno > Cam
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Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:25 AM   #78
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My view? What view? That I don't give a shit? That POV?

Yeah, I don't give a shit that Brendan ****ing Albert, a slightly above average nearly 29 year old tackle for a shitty ****ing football team is being traded for a second round pick.

The ****ing guy was the "anchor" for two 2-14 teams, a 4-12 team, a 7-9 team and a 10-6 team. He's never been under ANY pressure to perform at a high level. He's not playing in New York or Philly or Washington or Dallas or Baltimore. He's played for a shit team and his play has been "okay".

Get the pick and move on. JFC.
Yeah, that's exactly what the ****ing dumb football people are saying.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:30 AM   #79
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I was being conservative in my hate.

Similar:
Matt Schaub
Tony Romo
Philip Rivers
Andy Dalton
Sam Bradford
I'd take any of these guys over Smith because each are capable of throwing the ball over 20 yards with accuracy and each of these is capable of mounting a 4th Quarter comeback when behind by more than a touchdown.

IMO Smith needs a lead in the score and an opposing defense that allows him to complete 5 yard passes regularly. Take either away and the game is in real jeopardy.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:32 AM   #80
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Yeah, that's exactly what the ****ing dumb football people are saying.
Look, I understand it. I don't endorse it. I've mentioned that several times.

I'd rather have Albert and Richardson or Austin or Jordan or whomever, rather than trading Albert and drafting his replacement.

But, it's completely out of my control.
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Geno > Cam
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Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:34 AM   #81
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not necessarily, you arent even factoring the impact that Alex Smith has. Alex Smith, at least for this year, will outplay the 34th pick in the draft. So the value that you gave up, to what you get, will be less. Meaning the Chiefs won.

Dont you think?
**** no he wont. Alex will look like cassel here. His only hope is taking the game out of his hand.
Charles will need to go off. Defense will need to look like 49ers.

There is a reason why his stats are similar to cassels, they are both not starting caliber qbs. You should not have to have amazing supporting cast to put up those numbers.

Only thing good about alex is we did not extend him.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:42 AM   #82
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The point that no one wants to acknowledge. In 5 years max, Albert WILL be out of the league, and Joeckell will be 26. Joeckell, will also get a 5 year rookie deal this year, that will be cheaper than Alberts deal. Albert, has also shown the propensity to be about Albert, and not about the team. If i was going to pay you 12 million dollars a year, if i wanted you to play water boy, you better get your ass out there and make sure there isnt a thirsty player on the field. Albert isnt that. Albert is about Albert. He didnt want to move to guard, he didnt want to move to right tackle. He wants to be Albert. A lot of people wont deal with that, which is why if you look at what the phins have done this offseason, adding mike wallace for one, they dont care about adding ME ME ME ME ME ME players. So its logical that ALbert would intrigue them.

Is there going to be a drop in production? Probably. But, when you factor in the cost of keeping Albert long term, his age, and his attitude, its not really that big of a loss.
Albert has to say he is a lt since he was franchised. The dropoff from lt to any other spot on the o-line with the franchise tag is pretty steep. You work out a long term deal with lt money, and Albert, I bet, would play anywhere you want him to play. By franchising him, he has no other choice but to say he is a left tackle and will only play left tackle. It isn't about "me, me, me" necessarily; it is about the nature of the beast with the franchise tag.

Another team tried to franchise a player as a TE rather than a WR so they didn't have to pay him as much. He is listed on the roster as a TE, but lined up as a wide reciever most of the time and wanted to be compensated as such since that is the position he played. Albert is simply doing the same thing.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:47 AM   #83
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Look, I understand it. I don't endorse it. I've mentioned that several times.

I'd rather have Albert and Richardson or Austin or Jordan or whomever, rather than trading Albert and drafting his replacement.

But, it's completely out of my control.
OK, that's a little more reasonable. My bad.
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Old 04-19-2013, 11:50 AM   #84
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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OK, that's a little more reasonable. My bad.
LOL. No worries, Dude!

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Geno > Cam
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Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:04 PM   #85
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The prevailing wisdom-not just at 1 Arrowhead Drive, but around the league, by GM's and coaches who are paid well do evaluate these things, is that Geno Smith is the best of a mediocre class of draft-able quarterbacks.

The apparent thought process of not just KC but the league is that Geno is not measurably better than the pack, which would include your Barkley/Wilson/Nassib/Manuel/Bray/Dyserts. Reid may like one or more of them, or he may not, but the fact is that they don't like Geno more than. IF they did, then KC, Oakland, Buffalo, and Arizona probably wouldn't have taken vet QB's. The #1 pick would be the envy of the league, and we could collect a king's ransom for it if we didn't need a QB. Which of course, we do, so we'd be keeping it and drafting Geno Smith. However, it looks like we're not and we can't give the pick away which tells me that nobody else thinks he's all that great either. Bummer.

While I want a homegrown franchise QB as much or more than anyone, I don't agree that you take a guy just to take a guy. That is stupid. We have had the bad luck to have the #1 overall pick in a year where there is no damned QB worth it. You don't take a guy you don't believe in just to take 'a guy'.

As it's been said, Reid and Dorsey are not controlled by the ghosts of Chiefs front offices past; What Carl did is not on their radar. What ***** did is not influencing their decisions. Dorsey and Reid saw a gaping hole at QB and filled it with the best available QB on the market. This is true; whether you're an Alex Smith fan or not, there was no one available that is better. They feel he can operate Reid's offense, and we'll have to see about that. They apparently don't feel Geno's the guy, and it bums me out, but I figure Andy Reid probably knows more about it than I do-and if he thought Geno was his guy, he'd go get him no matter what anyone else says. He's done it before. Fear is not a motivating factor for him.

My suspicion is that he likes a couple of the rest of the pack guys just as much, and that he'll take one early.

The Albert trade is not part of the Alex Smith trade and to try to equivocate them together as some sort of net sum deal is dumb. If you're going to do that, then you must include ALL of the offseason signings and trades into one big net sum. So, yeah, minus Albert and pick 1.1 (that no team wants) goes to take #1 draft pick OT, plus Alex Smith, plus we get that #2 pick back, plus Donta Robinson, plus Sean Smith, plus etc., etc., etc.
When you look at the whole body of work this offseason, what you see is that they addressed each gaping hole with multiple proven NFL level players.

We enter the draft with one big hole (probably) at Left Tackle. That's a helluva lot better than we were three months ago.
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:36 PM   #86
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Albert has to say he is a lt since he was franchised. The dropoff from lt to any other spot on the o-line with the franchise tag is pretty steep.
I dont believe that is accurate.

wikipedia.org/wiki/Franchise_tag#Non-exclusive_franchise_player_costs_by_position

It appears as if offensive lineman are considered one group and a franchised player would get the average pay of the top 5 highest paid players in the "offensive lineman" group regardless what position he plays (RT, LT, C, G).

Thus the designation would have no bearing on Albert's franchise tag pay, but could have a bearing on a longterm contract (since a LT pay >RT>G>C).
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Old 04-19-2013, 12:54 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by Chris Meck View Post
The prevailing wisdom-not just at 1 Arrowhead Drive, but around the league, by GM's and coaches who are paid well do evaluate these things, is that Geno Smith is the best of a mediocre class of draft-able quarterbacks.

The apparent thought process of not just KC but the league is that Geno is not measurably better than the pack, which would include your Barkley/Wilson/Nassib/Manuel/Bray/Dyserts. Reid may like one or more of them, or he may not, but the fact is that they don't like Geno more than. IF they did, then KC, Oakland, Buffalo, and Arizona probably wouldn't have taken vet QB's. The #1 pick would be the envy of the league, and we could collect a king's ransom for it if we didn't need a QB. Which of course, we do, so we'd be keeping it and drafting Geno Smith. However, it looks like we're not and we can't give the pick away which tells me that nobody else thinks he's all that great either. Bummer.

While I want a homegrown franchise QB as much or more than anyone, I don't agree that you take a guy just to take a guy. That is stupid. We have had the bad luck to have the #1 overall pick in a year where there is no damned QB worth it. You don't take a guy you don't believe in just to take 'a guy'.

As it's been said, Reid and Dorsey are not controlled by the ghosts of Chiefs front offices past; What Carl did is not on their radar. What ***** did is not influencing their decisions. Dorsey and Reid saw a gaping hole at QB and filled it with the best available QB on the market. This is true; whether you're an Alex Smith fan or not, there was no one available that is better. They feel he can operate Reid's offense, and we'll have to see about that. They apparently don't feel Geno's the guy, and it bums me out, but I figure Andy Reid probably knows more about it than I do-and if he thought Geno was his guy, he'd go get him no matter what anyone else says. He's done it before. Fear is not a motivating factor for him.

My suspicion is that he likes a couple of the rest of the pack guys just as much, and that he'll take one early.

The Albert trade is not part of the Alex Smith trade and to try to equivocate them together as some sort of net sum deal is dumb. If you're going to do that, then you must include ALL of the offseason signings and trades into one big net sum. So, yeah, minus Albert and pick 1.1 (that no team wants) goes to take #1 draft pick OT, plus Alex Smith, plus we get that #2 pick back, plus Donta Robinson, plus Sean Smith, plus etc., etc., etc.
When you look at the whole body of work this offseason, what you see is that they addressed each gaping hole with multiple proven NFL level players.

We enter the draft with one big hole (probably) at Left Tackle. That's a helluva lot better than we were three months ago.
The impending Albert trade and the Alex Smith trade both affect the Chiefs' options and movements in the draft's first two rounds. Only reason I consider both when looking at the Chiefs' movements regarding these players.

Alex Smith might help the Chiefs win 8-10 games this year and next, but really, what's the BFD about that? Barring a miraculous string of luck, or the Chiefs defense suddenly morphing into a historically awesome unit, it's not going to pay off in anything.

Filling the gaping hole at QB doesn't do much good, IMO, if you don't fill it with someone you can win long-term with.

If they truly are grading the QBs out as basically the same and are able to trade Albert for a pick that allows them to get one of those guys, a lot of my concerns will fade away.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:01 PM   #88
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Alex Smith might help the Chiefs win 8-10 games this year and next, but really, what's the BFD about that?
Yeah, who cares? The Chiefs have had four winning seasons out of the last thirteen and Arrowhead is still the loudest stadium in the NFL.

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Geno > Cam
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Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:11 PM   #89
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Yeah, who cares? The Chiefs have had four winning seasons out of the last thirteen and Arrowhead is still the loudest stadium in the NFL.

Whoo! Bring back the 90s!

Who cares if we actually are on a path to win it all as long as we win 2-3 more than we lose, make the playoffs, fill up the stadium and have a great tailgating atmosphere!

Huzzah!
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Old 04-19-2013, 01:17 PM   #90
DaneMcCloud DaneMcCloud is offline
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Originally Posted by duncan_idaho View Post
Whoo! Bring back the 90s!

Who cares if we actually are on a path to win it all as long as we win 2-3 more than we lose, make the playoffs, fill up the stadium and have a great tailgating atmosphere!

Huzzah!
Right. It's not important, whatsoever, to put a respectable product on the field.

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Geno > Cam
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Dane is gonna have to leave again after we draft Geno.

He faces monstrous backlash.
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