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Old 04-19-2013, 04:11 PM  
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What makes a first-round left tackle bust?

You take a guy like Jason Smith. Obviously he's been a disappointment to the Rams, but why?

When you look at an offensive tackle, you measure him, and that's pretty obviously objective. You can watch a ton of game tape on him to see how he plays in real-life situations. You can time how fast he gets into pass protection and how agile he is. Maybe it's harder to measure whether he can react to audibles, but really, if he's got elite measurables it seems like even if he screws that up he can get in someone's way.

So why is Jason Smith a bust? He was deemed an ultra-safe pick. What is he not doing, and was there some way it could have been measured? And not just him, but also Robert Gallery, Kwame Harris, Trezelle Jenkins (sigh), Mike Williams, Kenyatta Walker, Stockar McDougle, and so on.

Or for that matter, just stick to Jason and Gallery since they were ultra-high picks. Trezelle was known to be a project.

It just seems like there are relatively few variables that are critical for an offensive lineman, and that all of them should be identified and measured by now. These are, after all, multimillion dollar investments.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:16 PM   #2
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I'd say coaching, offensive philsophies/scheme, QB play, and play design (ties into OPhil) are all factors.

Additionally, different learning curves, the quality of the teachers the player has at his position, how much they dedicate themselves both on and off the field, and their intelligence are all factors that play a crucial role.

Nearly all of the 2nd paragraph's qualities are impossible for a fan to know sans inside information.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:20 PM   #3
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:28 PM   #4
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:36 PM   #5
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:38 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderception View Post
I'd say coaching, offensive philsophies/scheme, QB play, and play design (ties into OPhil) are all factors.

Additionally, different learning curves, the quality of the teachers the player has at his position, how much they dedicate themselves both on and off the field, and their intelligence are all factors that play a crucial role.

Nearly all of the 2nd paragraph's qualities are impossible for a fan to know sans inside information.
Nice post.

It seems like the quality of teachers can't be controlled, because every team will believe that they have quality teachers.

One would presume that the other Paragraph 2 things could be gleaned from interviews. One challenge, I guess, is that the college coaches may pump a guy up in interviews because they want their guy to go high, but it seems like lying would have a long-term impact on their credibility. (I'm looking at you, John Bunting, and your lies about Ryan Sims.) If I was an NFL team, I'd probably be talking to professors, restaurant workers, tutors, and others who don't have a vested interest.

On your first paragraph, that almost argues that the player isn't a bust, but rather that the team didn't do their homework or the team is self-delusional. Is there anything a team could do better to figure out if a left tackle is a fit with their philosophy?

And I guess the QB play can't be controlled. You either have Matt Cassel or you don't.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:38 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by SNR View Post
I'll give you my opinion if you post in my thread I made just for you

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=272214
Whoa, what's that? I must've missed it.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:39 PM   #8
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rain Man View Post
Nice post.

It seems like the quality of teachers can't be controlled, because every team will believe that they have quality teachers. True. This is why you probably need collaboration and in-depth interview process with all position coaches that the HC wants to hire (if you're a GM). It doesn't work that way though

One would presume that the other Paragraph 2 things could be gleaned from interviews. One challenge, I guess, is that the college coaches may pump a guy up in interviews because they want their guy to go high, but it seems like lying would have a long-term impact on their credibility. (I'm looking at you, John Bunting, and your lies about Ryan Sims.) If I was an NFL team, I'd probably be talking to professors, restaurant workers, tutors, and others who don't have a vested interest.
True and those are all sources I'd definitely interview as well as a few others. I'd also ensure that I saw how practices went. Whether those are closed to scouts entirely, I'm not sure
On your first paragraph, that almost argues that the player isn't a bust, but rather that the team didn't do their homework or the team is self-delusional. Is there anything a team could do better to figure out if a left tackle is a fit with their philosophy? As to the last sentence, probably not. You just really have to do your homework well.

And I guess the QB play can't be controlled. You either have Matt Cassel or you don't.
Last sentence=yup.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:48 PM   #10
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Acclimating them to an extremely high pressure environment then swiftly placing them in a vacuum?

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Old 04-19-2013, 04:49 PM   #11
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Not having a Franchise QB to protect....
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:57 PM   #12
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I watched nearly every game Gallery played in college. The guy was a beast. Dominant against the pass rush and punishing in the run game. And he came from college coaching that has turned out a lot of technically sound NFL linemen.

To this day I can't understand how he didn't become a great NFL player.
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Old 04-19-2013, 04:59 PM   #13
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The answer is I don't know enough about offensive line play to say for sure what I think makes tackles bust. Like all positions, it depends on the person getting drafted. Players can quite often simply not know what it takes to take all that great talent and use it properly on the football field.

I would have thought coaching would be high as well, but I've seen so many linemen go through shitty coach after shitty coach and still remain around the tops in the league.

All teams really have to go off of outside of the interview/film room I guess is what they like or look for in a player? It's the same thing that's going on in the Fisher/Joeckel debate. I doubt either player busts. One is going to be better than the other, though. Fisher plays a lot "meaner" than Joeckel does, which comes across as a kind of virtuosic play that you want out of a top LT.
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:06 PM   #14
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You would think that measurables,balance and foot quickness would be the keys and you should be able to see those on tape and at the combine.

I guess laziness is a bust factor
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Old 04-19-2013, 05:06 PM   #15
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Was Jason Smith that good in college? I thought he just blew up the combine
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