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View Poll Results: Would you be comfortable with this in your neighborhood?
Yes. This makes me feel safer. 13 20.00%
No. This is a violation of the 4th Amendment 50 76.92%
America is taking it up the Gaz. 2 3.08%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-21-2013, 05:22 PM  
teedubya teedubya is offline
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:10 PM   #256
mr. tegu mr. tegu is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Exigent rule doesn't apply. Exigent does NOT mean emergency...it means immediate response where there is no time to get a warrant. If they could get a warrant for the search in Revere they could have gotten one for a block of homes. Sorry. The greatest good all around is to be safe from govt over reach. Especially, since a WoT is claimed to possibly NEVER end. The War on Drugs already destroyed basic rights and Constitutional protections. Such situations make the people drop their guard.

ex·i·gent (ks-jnt)
adj.
1. Requiring immediate action or remedy. See Synonyms at urgent.
2. Requiring much effort or expense; demanding.
Yes, because I am sure the dictionary definition is completely adequate for law. From wiki:

Quote:
An exigent circumstance, in the American law of criminal procedure, allows law enforcement to enter a structure without a search warrant, or if they have a "knock and announce" warrant, without knocking and waiting for refusal under certain circumstances. It must be a situation where people are in imminent danger, evidence faces imminent destruction, or a suspect will escape.
In the criminal procedure context, exigent circumstance means:

An emergency situation requiring swift action to prevent imminent danger to life or serious damage to property, or to forestall the imminent escape of a suspect, or destruction of evidence. There is no ready litmus test for determining whether such circumstances exist, and in each case the extraordinary situation must be measured by the facts known by officials.[1]

Those circumstances that would cause a reasonable person to believe that entry (or other relevant prompt action) was necessary to prevent physical harm to the officers or other persons, the destruction of relevant evidence, the escape of a suspect, or some other consequence improperly frustrating legitimate law enforcement efforts.[2]

Exigent circumstances may make a warrantless search constitutional if probable cause exists. The existence of exigent circumstances is a mixed question of law and fact.[3] There is no absolute test for determining if exigent circumstances exist, but general factors have been identified. These include: clear evidence of probable cause; the seriousness of the offense and likelihood of destruction of evidence; limitations on the search to minimize the intrusion only to preventing destruction of evidence; and clear indications of exigency.

Exigency may be determined by: degree of urgency involved; amount of time needed to get a search warrant; whether evidence is about to be removed or destroyed; danger at the site; knowledge of the suspect that police are on his or her trail; and/or ready destructibility of the evidence.[4] In determining the time necessary to obtain a warrant, a telephonic warrant should be considered. As electronic data may be altered or eradicated in seconds, in a factually compelling case the doctrine of exigent circumstances will support a warrantless seizure.

Even in exigent circumstances, while a warrantless seizure may be permitted, a subsequent warrant to search may still be necessary.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:10 PM   #257
KChiefer KChiefer is offline
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Originally Posted by Donger View Post
No thanks. Would someone else fill me in, please? Thanks.
She's basically just been Monday morning quarterbacking and babbling about how the Supreme Court doesn't understand the Constitution.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:11 PM   #258
La literatura La literatura is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
A warrant shall issue on probable cause.
You want to conflate the second clause with the first clause, which is certainly legitimate. Many justices over the years have had that opinion regarding the 4th Amendment. The modern understanding is along those same lines: all searches without a warrant are per se unreasonable. (But there are some well-established exceptions to that.)

The majority of the Supreme Court today, by the way, including Scalia's originalist position, is that non-warrant searches aren't per se unreasonable.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:11 PM   #259
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
She's basically just been Monday morning quarterbacking and babbling about how the Supreme Court doesn't understand the Constitution.
So he should trust an Obama-bot? Seriously, you two are peas in a pod when it comes to the state.
Donger should read the poll results.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:12 PM   #260
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
I covered it earlier in the thread. Read it. You pull this stunt all the time when you arrive later.
So, I've read the thread now. Where exactly did you answer the question?
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:12 PM   #261
mr. tegu mr. tegu is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Liberals can be bullies when one dissents from their pov. This shows why they are not really liberals but illiberal leftists.
Tolerance for multiculteralism and diversity but not in thought such as political opinions.
There are no political opinions to be had.

More from a referenced case which should pretty much put an end to this:

Quote:
The basic aspects of the "exigent circumstances" exception are that (1) the law enforcement officers must have reasonable grounds to believe that there is immediate need to protect their lives or others or their property or that of others, (2) the search must not be motivated by an intent to arrest and seize evidence, and (3) there must be some reasonable basis, approaching probable cause, to associate an emergency with the area or place to be searched.
http://federal-circuits.vlex.com/vid...ndant-37111820
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:12 PM   #262
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Originally Posted by KChiefer View Post
She's basically just been Monday morning quarterbacking and babbling about how the Supreme Court doesn't understand the Constitution.
There's a shock.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:13 PM   #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr. tegu View Post
Yes, because I am sure the dictionary definition is completely adequate for law. From wiki:
No the words of the Fourth are what matter not just what Law schools, which have increasingly made positivist law matter over natural rights, say. Lawyers and judges have increasing added their own words and made law on the bench. They are agents of the state....particularly judges. At least some lawyers try to protect us from them. The Framers didn't discuss any exigency rules to my knowledge and those words do not exist in the amendment. Period.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:14 PM   #264
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:14 PM   #265
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Doesn't matter how many. They could have gotten a warrant to search a block of about 20 houses.

Unreasonable should be based on "no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause..."

May I ask what you don't understand about that line?
You would not have particularized probable cause to search each of 20 houses with 20 different owners or tenants residng in them.

Probable cause means a reasonable probability of finding a particular person suspected of particular crime(s) or evidence of particular crime at a particular location.

If you know this guy in one of the 20 houses, but you do not know which one then you only have a 5% possibility that he is any particular house.

A 5% possibility is not a reasonable probabilty, hence no probable cause for a warrant.

Reasonable is the touchstone for searches and seizures.

Warrantless searches are presumed unreasonable, but there are exceptions that defeat that presumption.

Warrants are issued only when an officer swears to facts that establish probable cause particular to the type of crime and the person and/or location.

You are asking for a general warrant and that is exactly what the Framers wanted to prohibit with the Warrant clause.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:15 PM   #266
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.
I especially like the part about knowledge from the suspect that police are on his trail. That applies perfectly to this situation.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:15 PM   #267
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
There isn't even any innuendo in the direction of a “compelling state interest” or “exigent circumstances" in the Fourth Amendment. It takes three years of law school to find such non-existent words.
Is it your opinion that there should be no "exigent circumstances" exception, then?
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:16 PM   #268
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Bottom Line—they should have at least tried to get a warrant. If not able to on time, which seems they were able to, then I can see your point. After that, they can try asking for the homeowners consent. As I said before, I think they would have gotten it since the people wanted the suspect caught and/or to be safe.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:16 PM   #269
La literatura La literatura is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
No the words of the Fourth are what matter not just what Law schools, which have increasingly made positivist law matter over natural rights, say. Lawyers and judges have increasing added their own words and made law on the bench. They are agents of the state....particularly judges. At least some lawyers try to protect us from them. The Framers didn't discuss any exigency rules to my knowledge and those words do not exist in the amendment. Period.
The Framers also didn't conflate the second clause within the first clause. You're taking a non-originalist position, BEP.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:17 PM   #270
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
No the words of the Fourth are what matter not just what Law schools, which have increasingly made positivist law matter over natural rights, say. Lawyers and judges have increasing added their own words and made law on the bench. They are agents of the state....particularly judges. At least some lawyers try to protect us from them. The Framers didn't discuss any exigency rules to my knowledge and those words do not exist in the amendment. Period.
So only what the framers did is what should apply? They didn't abolish slavery either. I guess those rulings should be invalidated? Along with every other ruling based on the Constitution just because they didn't think to discuss every possible circumstance at the time it was written?
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