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View Poll Results: Would you be comfortable with this in your neighborhood?
Yes. This makes me feel safer. 13 20.00%
No. This is a violation of the 4th Amendment 50 76.92%
America is taking it up the Gaz. 2 3.08%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-21-2013, 05:22 PM  
teedubya teedubya is offline
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Video Shows Home Searches By Boston Police Were NOT Voluntary

Are you comfortable with this?

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Old 04-22-2013, 01:18 PM   #271
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Originally Posted by jettio View Post
You would not have particularized probable cause to search each of 20 houses with 20 different owners or tenants residng in them.

Probable cause means a reasonable probability of finding a particular person suspected of particular crime(s) or evidence of particular crime at a particular location.

If you know this guy in one of the 20 houses, but you do not know which one then you only have a 5% possibility that he is any particular house.

A 5% possibility is not a reasonable probabilty, hence no probable cause for a warrant.

Reasonable is the touchstone for searches and seizures.

Warrantless searches are presumed unreasonable, but there are exceptions that defeat that presumption.

Warrants are issued only when an officer swears to facts that establish probable cause particular to the type of crime and the person and/or location.

You are asking for a general warrant and that is exactly what the Framers wanted to prohibit with the Warrant clause.
Then no warrant no search. Ask for the homeowners consent.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:18 PM   #272
La literatura La literatura is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Bottom Line—they should have at least tried to get a warrant. If not able to on time...then I can see your point.
They didn't need to. The law doesn't compel it [they were acting precisely within the law by all indications], and it would have taken more time that they had no idea they had.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:20 PM   #273
La literatura La literatura is offline
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Bottom Line—they should have at least tried to get a warrant. If not able to on time, which seems they were able to, then I can see your point. After that, they can try asking for the homeowners consent. As I said before, I think they would have gotten it since the people wanted the suspect caught and/or to be safe.
Yeah, there does not exist a judge who would have not granted it. Most would have been shocked that they were asked. Some would probably be outraged. It would have been irresponsible to not do as the cops did.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:20 PM   #274
BucEyedPea BucEyedPea is offline
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After 9/11 federal agents were given the ability to write their own search warrants too. This makes it even less of an excuse.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:21 PM   #275
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Bottom Line—they should have at least tried to get a warrant. If not able to on time...then I can see your point.
You need particularized probable cause to get a warrant.

Not Applying for a warrant(s) had nothing to do with time. Tamerlane was dead in the middle of the night.

The police did not start the house to house until daylight.

Not applying for search warrant(s) was because no officer could swear to facts establishing particularized probable cause and no judge should issue a warrant that is too general and without particularized probable cause.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:21 PM   #276
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Why its dangerous.

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Old 04-22-2013, 01:23 PM   #277
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Okay, good. So yet another example of certain people taking a situation and trying to use it as an example of the gubmint overstepping their bounds on the road to martial law?
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:25 PM   #278
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jettio View Post
You need particularized probable cause to get a warrant.

Not Applying for a warrant(s) had nothing to do with time. Tamerlane was dead in the middle of the night.

The police did not start the house to house until daylight.

Not applying for search warrant(s) was because no officer could swear to facts establishing particularized probable cause and no judge should issue a warrant that is too general and without particularized probable cause.
Time was mentioned because Kchiefer and Brainiac were using that as an excuse to not get a warrant or try.

So in other words, none of those homeowners were suspected of any probable cause but were treated like criminals with hands up and multiple frisks.

So the thread title is correct because these should have been voluntary. I stated earlier that during the 1917-20 Red Scare people were endangered with more people killed, there were a few limited searches but most people's rights were respected.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:33 PM   #279
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
So in other words, none of those homeowners were suspected of any probable cause but were treated like criminals with hands up and multiple frisks.
None of the homeowners were suspected of being the bomber, as far as I know. However, there was probable cause that the bomber was hiding in a home. No homeowners were sent to jail, so I'm not sure what "treated like criminals" means. If it just means 'put your hands up and get frisked' [were there even frisks?], cops can do that if their safety is reasonably thought to be in danger.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:38 PM   #280
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
After 9/11 federal agents were given the ability to write their own search warrants too. This makes it even less of an excuse.
I don't know this for a fact, but I think the ability for "federal agents" to write a search warrant was long before 9/11. Like, always. Why couldn't federal agents write the search warrant? I'm assuming your position is only that a prosecutor can write one? What good does that provide? A funneling effect?
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:39 PM   #281
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Let me ask you jettio, since you brought better points up:

1) Specific place to search
Can't a judge have twenty warrants on his desk for the each house listed to be searched? Just do a batch processing and sign them all. There were twenty houses in all. They had him narrowed down although the suspect was found just a bit outside that area.

2) You say they have to have evidence of crime being committed in the location. Couldn't they name the terrorist suspect may be hiding on lam or have taken a hostage as they already killed a cop? Can't certain searches just be connected to a lawful arrest whether it's the owner or not that is suspected?
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:41 PM   #282
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Originally Posted by La literatura View Post
None of the homeowners were suspected of being the bomber, as far as I know. However, there was probable cause that the bomber was hiding in a home. No homeowners were sent to jail, so I'm not sure what "treated like criminals" means. If it just means 'put your hands up and get frisked' [were there even frisks?], cops can do that if their safety is reasonably thought to be in danger.

you can seem them getting frisked in the linked video.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:43 PM   #283
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Originally Posted by BucEyedPea View Post
Just do a batch processing and sign them all.
You make it sound so unimportant! It's your argument, BEP! You're supposed to say something like, "Even though its 20 warrants, the judge wouldn't be too burdened by carefully sifting through the warrants, analyzing their scope and measures, perhaps plotting them on a map, and listening intently to what the prosecutor and cop has to say. The judge can then, upon ruminating on the Founders and the essence of liberty, make a cautious and bona fide decision based on the merits of the application."

NOT "Just do a batch processing and sign them all."
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:46 PM   #284
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Originally Posted by demonhero View Post
you can seem them getting frisked in the linked video.
You're right.
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Old 04-22-2013, 01:47 PM   #285
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Quote:
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you can seem them getting frisked in the linked video.
FWIW, Aries Walker pointed out that there may be something going on here that wasn't the norm in the rest of the neighborhood.
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